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Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

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Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#81

Post by kapilgorve »

igor_filippov wrote: post #36

I worked with only one, the one my partner foolishly chosen before I've joined him. Issues we faced: - Developers were almost completely illiterate when it came to basic things, like http vs https, using git, encryption vs encoding. That's just something I wasn't ready for - Using old technologies, i.e. Eclipse for Android development when almost everyone is on Android Studio, having libraries which haven't been main…

I was working as a remote developer on frontend. I literally had to explain what is difference between get and post requests in REST apis to the android guy. When I checked his profile, he had mentioned he was working from three years as Android developer. :/

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#82

Post by sanjiv1994 »

I am working in a Startup, we have outsourced some jobs to third party team. I can’t tell you how horrible Code they write. Just to give a context they will store values in JSON inside the DB, just to lower the effort of converting them later

I totally agree that the quality of work is way to low. I think that it’s up to the developer how well they write the code and develop themselves nothing to do with what majors they had in School. It’s all about handling the minutest details well and this is what differentiates a good Dev. It’s like carefully selecting the proper screws while building a drawer even though the screws might not be visible to the user.

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#83

Post by indianCoder »

sanjiv1994 wrote: post #82

I am working in a Startup, we have outsourced some jobs to third party team. I can’t tell you how horrible Code they write. Just to give a context they will store values in JSON inside the DB, just to lower the effort of converting them later I totally agree that the quality of work is way to low. I think that it’s up to the developer how well they write the code and develop themselves nothing to do with what majors…

Your concern may be right. But what is wrong with storing JSON in DB? Many databases have primitive support for storing JSONs.

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#84

Post by rajarshisharma »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #65

I see a lot of comments here about increasing code quality, work with your customer on the spec, don't play the lower price game, etc. These are all symptoms of a larger systemic, cultural issue. I'm not referring to the different cultures between regions, I'm talking about the developer culture. Successful agencies in the west pride themselves on being engineering focused and treating developers right. Treating them…

Wow, this is so accurate. I used to do a lot tech interviews in my previous organisation and 90% of the time, would wind up with a person whose near future goal is to be a manager or who would boast of having managed x number of people, apparently that profile being of a more prestige value than someone who purely codes. In due of course of that experience, I could also derive that this attitude kind of stems from difference in our approach to getting in computer science itself.. most folks who get into a particular engineering stream (computer science/ electronics/ IT etc.) in India don't do it out of an interest in that particular stream but rather out of the prestige that the stream has because people with higher grades in the engineering entrance exams are "supposed to" join these streams rather than mechanical or chemical streams, in which they might have more interest. This is again associated with the employment opportunities and social standing offered by that employment in a developing economy like India.

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#85

Post by um304 »

jbob2000 wrote: post #76
osrec wrote: post #18

I've used large (Wipro/TCS) and small firms, and poor code quality is common amongst them all. What's more apparent is their lack of ability to innovate or think on their feet. If I give them a "familiar" problem to solve, they're generally okay, but anything that requires them to think outside of the box, they tend to overcomplicate and the result is often terrible. Also, I no longer find them to be cost effective,…

Is there a connection between native speaking language and code quality? Since computer languages are logically constructed, do people who speak more logically constructed languages fare better? I see a lot of over complication in the code that our Indian developers produce. Lots of copy and pasting code around instead of wrapping in a common function and calling that. They setup weird data structures when simple arr…

Wow! That's a big generalization. Silicon Valley is full of top notch developers with Indian origin. Similarly, you can find plenty of mediocre non-Indian developers everywhere. If I've to blame anything, I'd blame lack of systems, than entire language family.

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#86

Post by um304 »

jbob2000 wrote: post #76
osrec wrote: post #18

I've used large (Wipro/TCS) and small firms, and poor code quality is common amongst them all. What's more apparent is their lack of ability to innovate or think on their feet. If I give them a "familiar" problem to solve, they're generally okay, but anything that requires them to think outside of the box, they tend to overcomplicate and the result is often terrible. Also, I no longer find them to be cost effective,…

Is there a connection between native speaking language and code quality? Since computer languages are logically constructed, do people who speak more logically constructed languages fare better? I see a lot of over complication in the code that our Indian developers produce. Lots of copy and pasting code around instead of wrapping in a common function and calling that. They setup weird data structures when simple arr…

Also, if it was because of "logically constructed" languages, how'd many fundamental concepts of mathematics would develop in India, including concept of zero?

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#87

Post by um304 »

If I were you, I'd work on setting a good image of my own self, or of my agency, instead of attempting to change image of an entire country.

I'd work hard to sharpen my skills. I'd find some way so let the world know about my skills. It could be through blogging, or through contributing in open source software, or any other way. When looking for clients, I'd find good clients who appreciate quality work (not every client cares about quality and not price). I'd work hard to build good work relationships with those clients. One good relationship goes a long way.

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#88

Post by docmovies »

I can only speak from my own individual experience with one such company (Readybytes). It was, and still is - great. I believe it all sums up to the personality and leadership of the CEO, which in this case assumes total responsibility and demands high dedication from his employees, which he personally picks one by one. My projects are for PHP web applications and we continue to develop it together. By "together" I don't mean it's a partnership, but that the ideas come many times from the developers themselves. I find it enriching. I would also suggest anyone who wants to work with an agency abroad on a large scale project to simply go there, meet the people, sit and work with them in the same room, dine together, participate in social events etc. Not only does it create bonds, but it improves the communication at all levels for the benefit of all sides

Re: Ask HN: What are your views on India based development agencies?

#90

Post by trolliloquy »

laci27 wrote: post #21
NicoJuicy wrote: post #15

Have tried a lot of times ( 8 times to be exact), the only one that worked is now doing his own projects and launches a SAAS. The CEO was involved in every project. Every project took a very long time though and deadlines were not met. Other experience, estimates are wrong, filling in more hours than actually worked and they always say yes. But what they mean is we can't or don't understand what your mean and we will…

"they always say yes." OMG this is by FAR the most annoying thing with them. But I think It's a cultural thing.. They say yes, not because they know how to actually do it, but rather that they understood what you said (English is a second language for them so I think they just mean "yes, I understood that part").

Being an Indian myself, I'd clarify, that this might be the case with the Chinese (Long ago watched some Not-real Venice creator's experience on NatGeo), but not with Indians.

Usually the consultants/people-who-pitch at such dollar-hungry Indian firms won't tell you 'NO' because they fear they might lose you. People in-charge of saying 'YES' aren't often aware of the abilities of their team.

And, surprisingly, sometimes, the 'YES' comes out of plain politeness. In some occasions, they don't want to disappoint the clients who've exhibited a lot of trust on these folks.

So, when an Indian says 'YES', they correctly understand the liabilities & responsibilities that are implied, but they might not have what it takes to deliver on the commitments they made.

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