Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#161

Post by TStowe » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:19 PM UTC

kryptiskt wrote: post #132

The unforgivable action here is the badmouthing of the workers that they fired, gloating about increased morale. Not even Uber would sink that low. This crap from management shouldn't be tolerated, much less celebrated.

That tends to be one cheap option to keep psychologically tied to the company.

I'm not for or against it, but I imagine being one of those workers it would suck.

Still, I'm all for automating as much as possible, and in the case of workforce reductions, gloating over the fact that things move so much more quickly and accurately.

I do like Elon Musks's attitude toward people wasting time. And this is head and shoulders above what goes on in China, India factory conditions. Not saying no one should whine and bitch and moan about it, but truly, it's not all that bad.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#162

Post by thegayngler » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:20 PM UTC

camus2 wrote: post #19

jryle70 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ARE deadweight as far as the employer is concerned. Nothing disrespectful to them. They may be very good in some aspects and decent human being, but they are at a wrong place. Parting company should benefit both side. Layoff often come with severance package to give those who were let go time to find another job, at least I hope that's what Tesla does.

> They ARE deadweight as far as the employer is concerned no that's just how the employer qualify these people, it doesn't mean these people are responsible for Tesla's shitty management or them missing their financial objectives. They are scapegoats Tesla uses to save face in front of their investors.

I agree they are scapegoats for bad management. They should start firing the CEO. He over promises and then grossly under delivers. Making people work in bad conditions will turn good people into bad employees/DEAD weight. They were DEAD weight because people need rest and time away from work to maintain optimal performance.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#163

Post by ethbro » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:21 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #127

ZenoArrow wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of this style of management either, but at this moment in time we need a standard bearer for electric cars, and Tesla is best placed to fill that role at the moment. After the (hopefully successful) release of the Model 3, assuming this drives other companies to push forward electic cars, we won't need Tesla to be successful anymore, so I'd expect more people to be critical after that.

How does the Bolt fit into that framework?

I think people question GM's long term commitment to electric cars based on its history and legacy ICE business. That may change, but it's going to take awhile from anyone who remembers how the EV1 went.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#164

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:22 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #49

I know someone who just got fired in this round at Tesla. His manager never communicated to him that he was a bad performer. He was not on a PIP or any performance plans. He was also working on Model 3. One fine morning his manager called him and said this would be his last day. He is a single income earner and was so shocked by this news that he is getting borderline depressed. They offered only 2 weeks of severance…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#165

Post by LoSboccacc » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:24 PM UTC

lukevdp wrote: post #103

LoSboccacc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[am not your google]

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim

Homestly who cares? I considered this a community for “hackers” so either they’re at large willful ignorant of the industry they work on or misguided or outsiders and in all these cases nothing I could add would be useful to them neither engaging in a discussion would be for me.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#166

Post by jaimex2 » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:27 PM UTC

koevet wrote: post #111

walterbell wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some countries have laws requiring notice and time for a performance improvement period, before final termination of employment.

Yes, in Switzerland, for instance, a company is required to offer "job relocation" services for employees that have been working for the company for some years (I'm not sure how many exactly). These services (re-teach how to write a CV, how to prepare yourself for an interview, etc.) cost between 10K and 14K CHF per employee.

I'm in Australia and something like this seems very weird, you sometimes take for granted fair work laws till you see what happens in countries without them.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#167

Post by hyperpape » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:27 PM UTC

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

Podcast on Netflix's practices: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/08/28/435583328/episo...

They're pretty brutal. In one case a woman works herself to the point of chronic back pain. They tell her to take as much time as she needs to recover. But when she comes back, her job is gone (they didn't hire someone else, they just eliminated it).

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#168

Post by simonsarris » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:30 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #48

High-level executives at Tesla are bailing out. Back when Musk announced his overoptimistic production schedule for the Model 3, his two top production executives quit.[1] Nine more high-level executives have left so far this year.[2] [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-04/two-tesla... [2] https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2017/08/02/tesla-ts...

I'm not sure you can read into these three you linked.

Josh Ensign left to become COO at a different company and his stint at Tesla was the longest in his list of experience: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-ensign-3604431/

Greg Reichow worked at Tesla for 5.5 years and switched jobs to become an investor: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregreichow/

Kurt Kelty was at Panasonic for 14 years and Tesla for 11.5. As far as we know from LinkedIn he hasn't got a new job, which you could see as fine (left for personal reasons or simply burnt out) or bad (left because he saw doom ahead, even though he didn't have another job lined up). https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurt-kelty-5604bb/

What is so bad about these departures? Simply the timing?

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#169

Post by thegayngler » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:31 PM UTC

So basically what you have is Musk over promising and under delivering but it's the worker's fault he could not meet unrealistic deadlines he set himself ignoring all reality.

Musk set Tesla up for failure and now the non-management people have to suffer as a result. The fact that this is even being talked about right now may hurt Tesla's chances of hiring great future employees...especially with that scathing article basically saying they were being fired for bad performance and not laid off.

Can you still get unemployment if you are fired for unsatisfactory performance?

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#170

Post by Nokinside » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 1:31 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #139

koevet wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not for Germany only. The majority of EU contries have similar benefits guaranteed by the law.

I always wondered why laws are needed to require benefits. Seems like working for someone is a consensual choice that ought be regulated by the free market itself. Other than physical safety regulations, seems like the rest of it is government overreach. It’s also weird to me that a “contract” covers “workers” rather than a contact negotiated by each worker. Seems rather Marxist to me to consider workers as interchan…

You should find out. Just wondering with underlying vague conviction where "things seems" forever is not a good thing.

Even Adam Smith knew that 'free market' is idealization and don't fit into everything without tweaking. Most non-regulated markets suffer from market failures and contracts have negative externalities. Smith's invisible hand was not all seeing hand.

As a market advocate myself, I approach markets as an economist. They are something can be made to work, but it usually involves mechanism design (= reverse game theory).

Collective bargaining and labor laws can have both positives and negatives. To make it work well requires discretion. Workers competing against each other with lower benefits has some very negative effects for the society.