Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#101

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 10:11 AM UTC

throwingerman wrote: post #93

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

And it is exactly this style of management that is causing problems at the German automation plant he aquired (see my comment in the duplicate thread). It is probably a reason why production of the Model 3 is behind -- the company he acquired builds the factory robots needed for advanced automation. Smart move to acquire it then and it explains why the timing is now off. You can't run a German plant like an American…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#102

Post by leereeves » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 10:12 AM UTC

throwingerman wrote: post #93

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

And it is exactly this style of management that is causing problems at the German automation plant he aquired (see my comment in the duplicate thread). It is probably a reason why production of the Model 3 is behind -- the company he acquired builds the factory robots needed for advanced automation. Smart move to acquire it then and it explains why the timing is now off. You can't run a German plant like an American…

> [Musk] also joked to employees they would be going through “production hell” to meet demand for the new car.

It sounds like taking sick days, vacation days, and going home at 5pm is exactly what Musk doesn't want from employees.

Germans are fortunate to have those benefits guaranteed by law (and culture).

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#103

Post by lukevdp » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 10:29 AM UTC

LoSboccacc wrote: post #72

icebraining wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

[am not your google]

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#104

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 10:29 AM UTC

throwingerman wrote: post #93

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

And it is exactly this style of management that is causing problems at the German automation plant he aquired (see my comment in the duplicate thread). It is probably a reason why production of the Model 3 is behind -- the company he acquired builds the factory robots needed for advanced automation. Smart move to acquire it then and it explains why the timing is now off. You can't run a German plant like an American…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#105

Post by mattmanser » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 10:51 AM UTC

Steeeve wrote: post #90

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research shows the long-term effects of disruption are a function of its duration. (If you’re looking for the paper I am referencing, it was an IMF paper on the effects of conflict on economic productivity.) Short and harsh is better than long and simmering.

I get that. If there's a layoff or a re-org going on, getting it all done at once is better. The idea of losing poor performers on an annual basis is the one I cannot get behind. I am perfectly fine with the idea that someone who isn't doing there job loses it. Where I have a problem is that once a year managers are told to dump their lowest performing people. The reality is that people will game the system. They wil…

The alternative is everyone waits for an excuse, the next recession, and then you get a massive 10% layoff.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#106

Post by praulv » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 10:57 AM UTC

I used to be of the opinion that a company should have full right to drop dead weight as and when it chooses fit. The thing we forget is we, citizens, pay extortionate taxes to run a government which provides favourable incentives for companies to form and provide employment. They should, in return, be obliged to demonstrate some level of mutual benefit to employees, rather than purely incentivising shareholders' and directors' bonuses.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#107

Post by richman777 » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 11:02 AM UTC

dmode wrote: post #57

metaphor wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know someone who just got fired in this round at Tesla. ... They offered only 2 weeks of severance. Fired or layed off? I've never experienced either, but I always thought severance pay was exclusive to the latter.

I am not sure of the difference between firing and laying off. Manager basically said that today is last day, bring in your equipment etc

Typically you’re fired when you do something bad. I wouldn’t consider what Tesla did as firing anyone.

Poor performance isn’t typically a “bad thing” in this sense. For instance, if someone went and pissed in the coffee pot, they would be fired. If a big group of people were simply told to not come in anymore it’s laid off. Tesla specifically said this wasn’t laying people off so I’m not sure how that works.

I don’t know if there’s any legal or contractual grounds for one or the other but I’d guess it would matter what state you’re in.

I know for a lot of states collecting unemployment benefits does require some sort of reason for termination that is related to the above distinction.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#108

Post by classybull » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 11:02 AM UTC

kryptiskt wrote: post #95

dmitriid wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are an employee in the States, that is. There’s a mandatory three-month notice period in Sweden, so that the person who is fired (or sho leaves) has the time to find a new job

That three month notice period when leaving is a hassle for employees, being a lame duck is no fun.

Better than being a broke duck.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#109

Post by koevet » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 11:03 AM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #102

throwingerman wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is exactly this style of management that is causing problems at the German automation plant he aquired (see my comment in the duplicate thread). It is probably a reason why production of the Model 3 is behind -- the company he acquired builds the factory robots needed for advanced automation. Smart move to acquire it then and it explains why the timing is now off. You can't run a German plant like an American…

> [Musk] also joked to employees they would be going through “production hell” to meet demand for the new car. It sounds like taking sick days, vacation days, and going home at 5pm is exactly what Musk doesn't want from employees. Germans are fortunate to have those benefits guaranteed by law (and culture).

This is not for Germany only. The majority of EU contries have similar benefits guaranteed by the law.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#110

Post by spatulon » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 11:05 AM UTC

throwingerman wrote: post #93

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

And it is exactly this style of management that is causing problems at the German automation plant he aquired (see my comment in the duplicate thread). It is probably a reason why production of the Model 3 is behind -- the company he acquired builds the factory robots needed for advanced automation. Smart move to acquire it then and it explains why the timing is now off. You can't run a German plant like an American…

Presumably one bit of Tesla culture they can't bring to Germany is firing low performers.

I worked for a German company for over a decade. I don't know if it was due to their culture or their laws, but I never saw anyone get fired for poor performance (except for failing the initial 6-month probation after joining). And it's not like we didn't have low performers — once I got into management it became quite clear that there were a handful of people who were borderline useless, but it was just accepted that they were employees, that the company should look after them just the same, and find work for them to do.