Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#31

Post by Dylan16807 » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 5:36 AM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #22

2 key sentences in the article say so much: "Several said Model X, Model S and former SolarCity operations seemed to be targeted." ... "The spokesman said most of the dismissals were administrative and sales positions, and outside of manufacturing." This has little to do with performance or any conspiracies. If your output of products is about to dramatically shift there is no reason to think employment should remain…

> If your output of products is about to dramatically shift there is no reason to think employment should remain stable among all departments.

Among all departments, of course not. But the job of administration and sales for the old model of car is a tremendously close match to administration and sales for the new model. If they didn't have a sufficiently large desire to fire these people, they would transfer most or all of them over.

The solarcity firings would possibly represent a shift in labor requirements, but even then they are strongly denying it with the claims of performance-based firings and not layoffs.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#32

Post by mankash666 » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 5:38 AM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #22

2 key sentences in the article say so much: "Several said Model X, Model S and former SolarCity operations seemed to be targeted." ... "The spokesman said most of the dismissals were administrative and sales positions, and outside of manufacturing." This has little to do with performance or any conspiracies. If your output of products is about to dramatically shift there is no reason to think employment should remain…

Flawed assumption being presented as logic here. The only logical reason for firing would be if the model S,X skills were completely irrelevant to whatever the new model is - which is unlikely.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#33

Post by zaroth » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 5:43 AM UTC

camus2 wrote: post #19

jryle70 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ARE deadweight as far as the employer is concerned. Nothing disrespectful to them. They may be very good in some aspects and decent human being, but they are at a wrong place. Parting company should benefit both side. Layoff often come with severance package to give those who were let go time to find another job, at least I hope that's what Tesla does.

> They ARE deadweight as far as the employer is concerned no that's just how the employer qualify these people, it doesn't mean these people are responsible for Tesla's shitty management or them missing their financial objectives. They are scapegoats Tesla uses to save face in front of their investors.

I wouldn't qualify them as that, and neither did Tesla. Not everyone is the right fit for the job they are currently working. People can struggle with a job for any number of reasons.

Companies will very rarely propose a pay-cut, but more likely they would just rather find someone else. Because they have specific jobs that needs doing and can't afford to have something done poorly.

Even if hiring was perfect there would still be rational reasons to fire sometimes. And hiring is far from perfect.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#34

Post by extrapickles » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 5:56 AM UTC

mankash666 wrote: post #32

spectrum1234 wrote: post #22

2 key sentences in the article say so much: "Several said Model X, Model S and former SolarCity operations seemed to be targeted." ... "The spokesman said most of the dismissals were administrative and sales positions, and outside of manufacturing." This has little to do with performance or any conspiracies. If your output of products is about to dramatically shift there is no reason to think employment should remain…

Flawed assumption being presented as logic here. The only logical reason for firing would be if the model S,X skills were completely irrelevant to whatever the new model is - which is unlikely.

It seems to me that the firings were probably more in the sales side. They have had problems with sales people who refused to do things the ‘Tesla Way’ by either being pushy, or by offering discounts to make their numbers look better.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#35

Post by lafar6502 » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 5:59 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #29

Do other companies do this? Unless this is GE-style force ranking, I've never heard of it. If somebody isn't performing well, I have no idea why I'd wait up to a year to deal with it. And it seems terrible for morale (and PR) to have a regular event where a bunch of people will be let go in one block.

No plan, just some dictatorship in action. They see trouble coming and make some random moves

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#36

Post by erdle » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:01 AM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #22

2 key sentences in the article say so much: "Several said Model X, Model S and former SolarCity operations seemed to be targeted." ... "The spokesman said most of the dismissals were administrative and sales positions, and outside of manufacturing." This has little to do with performance or any conspiracies. If your output of products is about to dramatically shift there is no reason to think employment should remain…

SolarCity is an albatross of debt around their neck... no surprises. They have to raise debt for a long time just to get financing these obligations. No dog and pony shows, just paper to pay off paper.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#37

Post by Steeeve » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:02 AM UTC

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney.

If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK.

People always seem to put Musk on a pedestal. Personally, I've always been (and always will be) leery of a company run by a PayPal founder.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#38

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:02 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #10

camus2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dead weight Calling real people "dead weight" is insulting and dehumanizing.

I'm not classifying them as dead weight, Tesla is. If they are firing them, they must in some way believe they are dead weight in some context. It's not an indictment on the employees, it's an indictment of Tesla. On the other hand I believe these people are not dead weight and are redeemable with the right effort.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#39

Post by Cookingboy » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:03 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #29

Do other companies do this? Unless this is GE-style force ranking, I've never heard of it. If somebody isn't performing well, I have no idea why I'd wait up to a year to deal with it. And it seems terrible for morale (and PR) to have a regular event where a bunch of people will be let go in one block.

>Do other companies do this? Unless this is GE-style force ranking, I've never heard of it.

Probably not right during the ramp up of the most critical product in company's history...

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#40

Post by tedsanders » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 6:05 AM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #12

tedsanders wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to waste time pointing out what you already know, but I think it's worth adding that you can be fired without being dead weight. Many firms (especially in law or consulting) have chosen to have pyramid structures with up-or-out policies that fire half the employees every two years. Even if the fired employees are good, this keeps everyone motivated and allows you to churn through employees to find the really exce…

> Even if the fired employees are good, this keeps everyone motivated and allows you to churn through employees to find the really excellent ones worth developing. The system is not inherently good or bad, as long as all parties are aware of it. Everything about these statements is wrong. Take it from someone who worked at Microsoft before and after they finally smartened up and ditched stack ranking: it's horrible.…

The top three management consulting firms are ranked #1, #3, and #11 on Glassdoor's best places to work. Clearly their up-or-out policies aren't seen as horrible by their own employees. And as a consultant who works at one of those firms, I've never seen anyone sabotage someone else's performance, not once. In fact, you are probably rated best when you help support those around you. Certainly the policy causes stress, but these firms are top destinations for MBAs regardless.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Award/Best-Places-to-Work-LST_KQ0,...