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Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#61

Post by hexane360 »

grandalf wrote: post #28

It's important to keep in mind that Tesla (like Walmart, Whole Foods, and Amazon) has been targeted by big labor for infiltration and union formation [1] [2] This is not necessarily because working conditions make workers feel that they would prefer the tradeoffs of unionization, but simply because Tesla is much more competitive without its workforce unionized, and so labor groups that are entrenched in legacy car ma…

>simply because Tesla is much more competitive without its workforce unionized

Do you really think unions believe that they have a negative effect on business? This action fits in with the stated ideals of unionization, so why do you feel the need to explain it as part of some hidden agenda?

>In many states labor unions have significant power granted by favorable laws that far exceed the market power they derive simply from organizing labor and leveling the playing field a bit.

This doesn't provide evidence that unions are overstepping their bounds in this case.

>So while I strongly support organized labor in abstract, it's difficult to blame Tesla for wishing to make its workforce less vulnerable to attack from big labor. Like many interest groups, big labor is mostly concerned with its own survival and growth, and is not really about the workers at all.

What in your mind separates ordinary labor unions from "big labor"? What made you draw the conclusion that the workers distributing literature were part of "big labor", and not just "leveling the playing field a bit"?

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#62

Post by hexane360 »

sdk300 wrote: post #52
grandalf wrote: post #28

It's important to keep in mind that Tesla (like Walmart, Whole Foods, and Amazon) has been targeted by big labor for infiltration and union formation [1] [2] This is not necessarily because working conditions make workers feel that they would prefer the tradeoffs of unionization, but simply because Tesla is much more competitive without its workforce unionized, and so labor groups that are entrenched in legacy car ma…

What exactly is this "big labor" fantasy?

This reminds me of when I met someone who was convinced that teachers leaned liberal because the evil teachers' unions intimidated them into voting democrat.

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#63

Post by lmm »

dmitrygr wrote: post #9
virtuabhi wrote: post #6

"Tesla has a hearing before the National Labor Relations Board in November for charges that company supervisors and security guards harassed workers distributing union literature. Tesla denied the accusations. Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted." - Local paper http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/13/4819750/ Edit: Added more lines from the preceding paragraph

> pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted I hate sneakily-worded sentences like this. Also among them, were women, hetrosexuals, and probably one or two Vietnam veterans. Some believe they were targetted.

Tesla is notoriously fond of libel lawsuits; a local paper probably can't afford to fight one.

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#64

Post by trhway »

danjayh wrote: post #58
Molkar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Housekeeping" is a funny euphemism for sending hundreds of people into unemployment.

If I line up a random group of 100 people at the average company, I can almost guarantee you that there is at least one who isn't doing his part. As someone who has worked with some of these people (and seen them laid off in rounds of performance-based cuts), I can tell you that some people deserve to be sent to unemployment. Yep, some good people will get hit too, but from my experience a good middle management laye…

>a good middle management layer

Fairy dust is more real than that.

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#65

Post by mjcl »

Molkar wrote: post #38

Paid Tesla actors are gaming the comments. Hacker News is influential. Votes can easily be gamed. Fake accounts are easy to make and hard to track. Noise is added to mix good info with misinformation to confuse and frustrate people sifting through comments trying to make sense of things. These people will make weaker arguments against Tesla's actions so those arguments can be easily discredited. People making stronge…

They're not alone. I spent about five hours (across several meetings) trying to convince a CFO that giving an employee no annual increase was a negative signal. I think he only gave in when he realized I wasn't going to let it go.

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#66

Post by NegativeLatency »

loeg wrote: post #44
weirdstuff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's it sneaky? Business management and shareholders routinely try to shut down unionizing all the time throughout the last two centuries. My buddy is a manager at a national retail chain and often comments on how proactively anti-union they are, just like their competitors. Other demographic groups like the ones you pointed out really don't have that same collective effect on the bottom line for shareholders across…

It's sneaky because it suggests that people were targeted because they were pro-union, without going so far as to make a claim of fact (which would open them to libel claims).

If the shoe fits.

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#67

Post by nostrademons »

hkmurakami wrote: post #54
Avshalom wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% is a hell of a lot of percent for a company of 30000.

The typical headline making layoff % at a Fortune500 type company is ~10%, fwiw.

Some of them just routinely fire the bottom 10% every year.

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#68

Post by 0xbear »

dmitrygr wrote: post #9
virtuabhi wrote: post #6

"Tesla has a hearing before the National Labor Relations Board in November for charges that company supervisors and security guards harassed workers distributing union literature. Tesla denied the accusations. Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted." - Local paper http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/13/4819750/ Edit: Added more lines from the preceding paragraph

> pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted I hate sneakily-worded sentences like this. Also among them, were women, hetrosexuals, and probably one or two Vietnam veterans. Some believe they were targetted.

At least it’s not “people familiar with Elon’s thinking”, because that’s the journalistic standard nowadays.

Re: Tesla fired hundreds of employees in past week

#70

Post by AndrewCHM »

crazy1van wrote: post #36
weirdstuff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's it sneaky? Business management and shareholders routinely try to shut down unionizing all the time throughout the last two centuries. My buddy is a manager at a national retail chain and often comments on how proactively anti-union they are, just like their competitors. Other demographic groups like the ones you pointed out really don't have that same collective effect on the bottom line for shareholders across…

If it's not "sneaky", it's at least lazy. "Some believe they were targeted"... Who? Why? If I said "Some believe we didn't land on the moon", that would be a true statement. But, it's also a way at hinting that we may have really not landed on the moon without offering any evidence or even citing specific people who believe that.

"who", the people who were distributing union related materials

"why", because they were distributing union related materials?

"without offering any evidence", which is why it says "believe"

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