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An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

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Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#171

Sci-fi is increasingly struggling to keep up with reality. Here's a novel with a similar premise (but more SF setting) that isn't even out yet: https://www.tor.com/2017/09/18/excerpts-annalee-newitz-auton...

my thinking on this is that science fiction authors are lazy and are not often scientifically trained; so they haven't been thinking about these topics at all. This is why science fiction is so dry and boring compared to neuroanatomy, molecular biology, neurophysiology, computational neuroscience, synthetic biology, etc.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Long term don't these companies think that charging outrageous prices for drugs will cause a future voter/government backlash of some sort No, because it demonstrably won't. People say they're angry and then do nothing about it. The US has an entire political party angrily decrying any effort to regulate healthcare as socialist slavery. The drug companies know they'll be just fine. Maybe some token slaps on the wris…

the US has an entire political party angrily decrying any effort to regulate healthcare as socialist slavery. Argubly regulation is the problem we're in this mess. Do you think an epipen would cost $600 if there weren't a Government granted monopoly? We have two parties who love the current amount of regulations on competition - you need to go to an AMA approved medical school to become a doctor, there aren't H1Bs fo…

>Argubly regulation is the problem we're in this mess.

No, that's not even arguable. Other countries with even more highly regulated healthcare manage to provide it for much, much less. You're just regurgitating mindless libertarian talking points that have no relation to the real world.

The particular form of regulation in the US may be a problem, but regulation in general is demonstrably not.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#173

DIY pharmaceuticals will never be safe, unless the recipes are regulated, at which point there's no point to them anyway. Imagine this situation: you Google for a recipe for a drug, and find two different recipes. Recipe A is the real one, while Recipe B will kill you instantly. The troll who posted Recipe B went around the internet claiming that Recipe B is real and Recipe A will kill you. There's no authoritative s…

Make them both, sell them on the dark web, see which has repeat customers?

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#174

For people who are interested, it's referenced in the article, but NurdRage did a synthesis of Pyrimethamine "from scratch". Only took 2 years and ~$22k, but of course, replicating his synthesis would be a little bit easier... for another PhD Chemist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddCuWX4vtOA&list=PLU79801KtV...

Not only “from scratch”, he even did it from widely available household products.

I think he said in the last video that it would have been cheaper and faster if he had bought some of the precursor chemicals directly instead of having to make them first.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#175

DIY pharmaceuticals will never be safe, unless the recipes are regulated, at which point there's no point to them anyway. Imagine this situation: you Google for a recipe for a drug, and find two different recipes. Recipe A is the real one, while Recipe B will kill you instantly. The troll who posted Recipe B went around the internet claiming that Recipe B is real and Recipe A will kill you. There's no authoritative s…

Aren't patents published publicly? So you could just check the patent (Although it may require some knowledge of biology/chemistry to understand).

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#177
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations can put pressure on prices (and if you look at epipens in particular, part of the regulations allowing the increase of their price have nothing to do with monopoly and a lot to do with getting policy placed into areas where organizations are required to keep an epipen on hand by regulation...). But in terms of overall effect, one can't ignore other nations which pay much lower prices for healthcare with b…

So I don't think one can generically fault "regulation" for a poorly performing health market in the US. You're absolutely right, however, I do think the worst parts of our medical system exist as consequences of regulation. The mandate that emergency rooms treat anyone who enters is onerous and there's no free lunch, paying customers are stuck with the bill. The licencing system isn't optimal for cost effective care…

> The mandate that emergency rooms treat anyone who enters is onerous and there's no free lunch, paying customers are stuck with the bill.

I don't think that's onerous, I think that is a minimal, and admittedly imperfect, expression of our societal intent that people shouldn't die unnecessarily in emergency rooms - either from lack of being able to pay; nor from a practical standpoint, lack or delay of on-hand proof of ability to pay.

Removing those regulations would cause all sorts of other problems. Someone arrives in an ambulance near-death, if I lack morals then one level of maximized extraction price is to have those patients commit to pay a value that represents the earning potential for that person for the rest of their life. They have to agree before getting admitted. Even more profitable, if I judge that person as having a well connected social network, I can charge even more because I know their friends and colleagues would chip in to save them... I'm not sure how a competitive market with no regulation changes the worst case for this transaction - if someone is near death then moving on to another emergency room is out of the question.

I see universal healthcare with a shared cost-pool as the lowest overhead way to provide for our social moral desires (but then I'm not in fear of the regulation with may be needed to implement that policy).

Insurace with a shared risk pool is a technically workable, but adds even more overhead, and ends up a more expensive way to do the same thing... but again regulations are involved (and fixing very flawed ones at that).

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economic function of IP is not to protect producers from consumers, but to protect producers from free-riding by other producers. The function of IP, from a government point of view, is to promote the useful arts and science and to ultimately make them available to the public after a limited amount of protection to the creator. Otherwise, there's no purpose in the government being involved in enforcing monopoli…

Promotion of the useful arts and sciences is the language the framers used, but the framers didn't know much about economics. The economic function of IP is to address the market distortion that could result if people were permitted to free-ride on the capital-intensive R&D or other people. The economic definition is also far more useful. Who knows what specific policies will result in "promoting the useful arts and…

If you're making an economic argument to justify the existence and nature of copyright law in today's society, which in itself I have no problem with, then surely you also have to consider that exponential propagation via entirely non-commercial sharing could still severely undermine the commercial value of a work. If that sort of work then becomes prohibitively expensive to create, doesn't that mean copyright is not doing its job as an incentive and everyone loses out? After all, if I make the next great independent TV show, it doesn't much matter whether 99% of my potential market sees it on YouTube or just torrents it, if either way those potential customers no longer pay me in return for enjoying the work. This seems counter to your original position that the economic function is copyright is about rival producers and not consumers.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#179
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that the legal system necessarily cares about morality or moral responsibility. It seems like the only criteria that would matter would be legal responsibility, whatever that standard might be.

If you take actions which a reasonable person would expect to cause harm to others, there is a legal dimension there ranging from civil liability, to the extreme of 2nd degree murder via “depraved indifference” statutes.

Good points.
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