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TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

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Re: TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

#81

Post by harrisonjackson »

eric_h wrote: post #63
beala wrote: post #25

I think true spaghetti code requires teamwork. I mean that seriously. You need at least 3 people all with different incomplete and incorrect mental models trying to modify the same codebase at the same time.

I disagree. I inherited an app that I'm maintaining that was written by one person over ~12 years. When requirements were added, he just cloned the app and started making the changes so the new app would meet the requirements. Repeat 2 more times, and you get to now, where there are 4 similar but not identical versions of the same code base, with inconsistently applied fixes to various bugs. All 4 still need to work…

I'd say one person over ~12 years is basically multiple developers working on it. I look back on code after a couple months and it often feels like someone else wrote it.

Re: TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

#82

Post by tgb »

When I first started programming (this was in C++), I decided that the obvious optimisation was to declare all these redundant local indices i,j,k as globals. Then the program won't need to make all this redundant crap! Of course that led to absurdly subtle bugs that only occasionally showed up since whenever I called a function which had a loop in it from inside of another loop, I would use i as the index for both loops. Error! I learned several important lessons when I figured that one out.

But now the author here says they're doing that same thing! How has this not inevitably led to problems? Or am I misunderstanding the scoping in Java?

Re: TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

#83

Post by hinkley »

S_A_P wrote: post #71

As Ive gotten older, I have severely relaxed my dogma on coding standards. I agree that code should be maintainable, legible and logically formed. Sometimes though, you just need to get things done, and architecting a large solution of abstractions and frameworks, just doesn't seem like a good use of time.

For me it feels more like a zero sum game.

Some things I care about a lot less, others I care about more. The biggest problem I have is with obscure code, and my understanding of obscure has shifted over time.

Basically, I prefer code that gets you to ask the right questions. I'm still trying to put my finger on what qualities those are.

I still care about code that looks one way but does something else, and I care about code that conceals what it's doing and how it accomplishes it by using convoluted delegation.

But a function with a single purpose and clearly named? If it's loaded with kruft I only care if it's on a flame chart or I have to keep stepping through it while debugging another issue. So I care more about functions in the middle or the top of the call tree and less about the leaf node ones.

I still push back on "It's not that hard to figure out this code" on the grounds that when an odd bug happens I'm going to be scanning dozens of functions trying to spot an issue. If every one is chock full of code smells, that process takes forever. In fact it discourages people from doing the right thing and instead they slap more workarounds on top instead of trying to find the real cause.

Re: TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

#84

Post by eric_h »

harrisonjackson wrote: post #81
eric_h wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I inherited an app that I'm maintaining that was written by one person over ~12 years. When requirements were added, he just cloned the app and started making the changes so the new app would meet the requirements. Repeat 2 more times, and you get to now, where there are 4 similar but not identical versions of the same code base, with inconsistently applied fixes to various bugs. All 4 still need to work…

I'd say one person over ~12 years is basically multiple developers working on it. I look back on code after a couple months and it often feels like someone else wrote it.

Yep, and in particular, one person over 12 years with one to three month breaks between sessions of working on it. He had no choice but to "monkey see, monkey do" what his past self did, and the resultant product is ... difficult to maintain, to put it nicely.

[Edit: I don't blame him - I understand how it happened, and also why he wanted to get out ;)]

Re: TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

#88

Post by worldsayshi »

davisdude wrote: post #51
russellbeattie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But then again, I'm like a completely different programmer than I was a few years ago, and even more different than I was years before that. I've got some long running personal scripts and projects I tweak every so often, and the end result is pretty much the same. "What the hell was I doing here? Whatever... I'll just add a bit of code and get it working. Done."

That describes my experience with some of my GitHub projects fairly accurately. Actual commit I did a few days ago: > Begin rewrite of rewrite of rewrite

Yeah, that sort explains why it's so hard to get anywhere with vaguely defined free time projects.

Re: TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

#89

Post by moomin »

eric_h wrote: post #80
hinkley wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things it took me a while to intellectualize is that 'you' a year ago is a very different person from 'you' today. Given enough time, maintaining a much larger body of code than a single person can reasonably handle, you're going to have disagreements with yourself without even realizing it.

Absolutely. When I stumble upon some code in my full time codebase that I find distasteful, my first thought is "what idiot did this". git blame and sure enough, it's me. Past me has been and always will be an idiot as far as present me is concerned (with some infrequent exceptions).

If you like comic books where the hero has to travel in time to fight himself, you'll love programming.

Re: TerrariaClone – An incomprehensible hellscape of spaghetti code

#90

Post by Nition »

alexwebb2 wrote: post #10
yathern wrote: post #9

I love DoubleContainer: https://github.com/raxod502/TerrariaClone/blob/master/src/Do... which is fortunately only used in a comment here: https://github.com/raxod502/TerrariaClone/blob/9ea04b15add48...

I'm sure there was a good reason for that.

I'm not so sure. In the readme he says there are over 500 cases of "unnecessary boxing."
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