Live data from Hacker News

Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

techcrunch.com

211–220 of 370 posts

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#211
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe - or maybe it just requires a specific way of thinking about things i.e. Problem Solving and Time/Task Management? As well as the ability to learn the task of course.

What's the difference between "problem solving" and "IQ" ? They seem like almost the same thing.

"IQ" measures something called "G", which is pattern-recognition ability (coincidentally the cutting edge of today's ML neural nets). The scientific theory of IQ is that that if you are good at pattern recognition, then you will be good at a wide range of cognitive tasks.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#212

How does flooding the market with developers that will never be able to pass their interviews help them? I guess it will increase the amount of people in the 1% by expanding the size of that pool? Just seems like Google out of all companies has a need for the best, not just blue collar code slingers. Many people with 4 years CS degrees from good schools do not get hired.

Maybe the want to free up "good" developers that work jobs requiring a lower skill level, by providing a better fitting low skill person for the job?

(Not to be taken too seriously)

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the job training was pretty standard in the tech industry in the past. I worked with a guy at an HP (oldest high-tech co. in CA) spinoff that was the head embedded software architect and worked his way up from the machine shop in the '70s. He started out manning a drill press and learned to program when they started using NC (numeric control) machine tools. Do you think Google lets anyone to work their way up from…

This is basically how my mother was trained as a programmer. She got a job, was literally handed a stack of books and reference material and started figuring shit out. She changed careers before I can really remember her at that job, but I too am self-taught in this field (but I trained myself at home). The whole idea of companies not investing in their people is relatively new.

To be fair, employees are no longer particularly faithful to employers-- after all, it's considered completely normal to spend only 2-5 years at a job, then move to the next one. This definitely complicates the benefits of on-the-job training: why waste 3-12 months training somebody to basic competence when they might leave a few months after that? Some of this is obviously due to employees fighting back against stagnant wages/lack of promotions, but it makes me wonder: who started the faithlessness first, employers or employees?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#214
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training I work for Google and I find there's already a very large amount of on the job training required due to all the powerful but complicated internal tools. My manager has told me that I should not feel pressured to contribute at all for my first 6 months and I should feel fr…

At the dawn of the computer age ATT, IBM, and other companies taught people how to program from scratch. Early on because there were no college programs to do so and later on because programs didn't graduate nearly enough people. And no one was self taught because there were no home computers. I don't see why Google couldn't do that today. I'm not saying they are morally obligated to do so. At the end of the day they…

> At the dawn of the computer age ATT, IBM, and other companies taught people how to program from scratch. Early on because there were no college programs to do so and later on because programs didn't graduate nearly enough people. And no one was self taught because there were no home computers. I don't see why Google couldn't do that today.

That does make sense and I think that would be super cool if companies could do that today.

I admit I don't know much about the history but isn't building software today more complicated though not necessarily harder than it was before?

My impression is that before we would just build programs that ran on computers. So in that sense, if you knew how to program and had a compiler to use, that was sufficient to do what companies wanted to do. However, now we have people building other things like services, which is requires additional complexity and tooling on top of what was previously necessary.

The point I'm trying to make is that I suspect nowadays there's more prerequisite knowledge for most jobs than before.

> But Google is planning on spending a billion dollars anyway, so here's another way they could do that. A way that I think would be more effective.

That's a really good point. I imagine even if it takes a very long time to train people, with a billion dollars you have the time to do that..

The optimistic side of me wants to say it's because handling the logistics for that would be a nightmare and it's really outside of our core expertise.

The realistic side of me thinks that it probably is too expensive to give the same benefits to those employees that we give to current full time employees.

The pessimistic side of me also thinks that there's a certain level of prestige associated with working at Google that has been, at least to some level, successfully marketed both inwards and outwards, and hiring people who don't meet whatever "bar" would undermine that.

> Congrats on getting what sounds like a great job.

Thanks!

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure all the gender studies classes has helped the vast majority of tech students become better developers

Given all the stuff that's happening lately with people like Susan Fowler, a whole lot of developers could have benefitted from more of those. Of course, that's completely ignoring that there is far, far, far more to "liberal arts" than gender studies.

I think it's more the people around them that would have benefitted from it.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#216
post #72
post #2

always remember: the industry's involvement in CS education has less to do with philanthropy and goodwill than it does with lowering the cost of labor over the long term

You'd need a scanning electron microscope to detect the tiny violin playing for people complaining about labor oversupply while making integer multiples of the median US household income building up an industry premised on automating away everyone else's jobs. Stop worrying about your wages! Your job will eventually be automated away. A basic income is sure to protect you.

>"A basic income is sure to protect you."

An unplanned, unsustainable, and uncommitted allowance provided to you by a group of people that seek power and do not share your interests will meet all of your future needs.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#217
post #207

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

I doubt that hiring average talent and training it is best for Google business. They believe that it is better to try hiring only the very best, and do it even if employees do not match a specific position they ostensibly interviewed for (e.g., train for skills or find new positions, but after a very high entry bar). I think retraining programs primarily help sharp, energetic folks who somehow got into a bad state (u…

Google hasn’t hired “the very best” for at least five to seven years now; there are plenty “average talent” employees who do their job adequately.

Mind you they do hire some of the best, but the idea that google engineers are “the best” is a myth.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#218

Everyone hates a cynic so bring on the downvotes: I'm going to warn everyone of what's coming. Software engineer jobs will be blue collar, $40-$60k a year jobs, by 2030. The HUGE push from government, and private business, to fill the PERCEIVED lack of engineers, will come to fruition around that time. Make no mistake about it - there is NOT a lack of skilled engineers right now. There is a disinterest among business…

"PERCEIVED lack"? Doesn't the fact that salaries are sky rocketing essentially disprove your point? Why are the salaries getting pushed higher and higher? Because demand for SWEs is outstripping supply. This to me looks like the same kind of privileged outlook that other professional guilds like the AMA desire. Do you want cheaper healthcare, or doctor compensation to keep going up? Hey, letting nurse practitioners t…

While it may appear that salaries are rising quickly, in reality, for the average tech employee, they have been standing still for quite a while.

In 2003, the average salary in tech was $69,400.

By 2017, the average salary had risen to $92,081.[1]

While that might seem like a pretty large payrise, after adjusting it for inflation, you come to a clear conclusion that over the last 12 years, salaries have stood basically still. You can point to people getting $120k+ as a first year employee at Google, but salaries like that are massive outliers. Average developer in america earns much less.

[1] Dice Tech Salary Survey 2017 https://marketing.dice.com/pdf/Dice_TechSalarySurvey_TechPro...

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd invested $1000 in Boeing in the early 80's, it'd be worth $200,000 today. Sounds meaningful to me.

And if I was a fetus in the early 80s? Or if I got sick and needed to sell that stock early to pay for treatment? Your point still is predicated on the "already having money" part.

Far and away most people are healthy 20-60 and are not sidelined by disastrous health problems.

The point is invest early in your working life, and you'll have the needed results when you're ready to retire.

$1,000 is not what people would consider "having money" is. $200,000 is. If you have a car, it surely cost far more than $1,000.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#220

Everyone hates a cynic so bring on the downvotes: I'm going to warn everyone of what's coming. Software engineer jobs will be blue collar, $40-$60k a year jobs, by 2030. The HUGE push from government, and private business, to fill the PERCEIVED lack of engineers, will come to fruition around that time. Make no mistake about it - there is NOT a lack of skilled engineers right now. There is a disinterest among business…

>software engineer jobs will be blue collar, $40-$60k a year jobs, by 2030. There have always been 'blue collar' engineering jobs. When I started in the tech industry I was making $13 an hour writing HTML and a bit of SQL here and there. There are probably tens of thousands of "Software Engineers" putting together PHP sites, doing front end JS work at an entry level, hacking together some minor software customization…

Agreed. I'll add that it is also worth noting current job openings don't mean "potential job openings". There is entire things we might not even be considering as a society simply because there is not enough people to consider it. I think this is the case in tech. So much of our society is lagging behind what current technical capability allows. I still have to fax paper forms sometimes. Why? The potential employment might be 10x, maybe even 100x what it is now. Just to keep entire industries even remotely up to date.
Post reply on HN