Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#131

Post by arjie » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #117

humanrebar wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trying to play gatekeeper against bringing in more workers... Except many unions do exactly this through closed shops and other tactics.

Sure. 19th century unions in the U.S. were often racist and or nativist, seeing non-WASPs workers as a threat. But surely a unions formed by 21st century tech workers with over a century of historical wisdom and the modern day spirit of innovation should be able to do better, no?

I sincerely cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or not. The first order of business of any tech union will be to stall the H1-B program and then follow that up with strict gatekeeping rules. Just read HN, a supposedly enlightened class of programmers. It's all short term protectionism from people insecure of their ability.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#132

Post by perpetualcrayon » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

2close4comfort wrote: post #101

They just want cheap labor! There is nothing altruistic about Google and their commitment to their fellow man. They merely want children (teach a kid scratch so they can be enslaved for a lifetime!) and people in lower income countries to take up where the people here need more inorder to live here. And if Google were to be honest they need people who want to live in the bay area and are willing to enslave themselves…

I say let them attempt to improve peoples' lives.

I doubt it will make you feel any better, but I don't think there will be a place in the world for a private company the size of Google (comparatively speaking).

Imagine a world where individuals will be starting up companies in their garage with a scale equivalent to Fortune 50 companies of today.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#133

Post by taway_1212 » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

Klockan wrote: post #73

ggambetta wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of people in Europe that work in Google's European offices. When I left in 2014, Zürich was something like 1500 people, with London and IIRC Paris having similar sizes, and many other smaller ones. That's hardly "so few positions", let alone "almost impossible to get one". Also, time zone differences (and to a lesser extent communications) were inconvenient, although there were very viable ways to work…

I know, I work there. Most I know don't even bother applying since it is hard to get an interview, they don't see getting into Google as an alternative. All Google would need to Gobble up all talent in Europe is basically to start pestering every developer like they do in Silicon valley, they already pay twice of what 99% of developers are earning so taking everything would be easy for them.

Does Google pay more than decents contracts in European big cities (i.e. 120k+ €)?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#134

Post by jimmaswell » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

heroprotagonist wrote: post #119

jimmaswell wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thankful I found a company like that after graduating. Seemingly the only such specimen in America today. It's a giant international consultancy company that seemingly has a questionable reputation online but it was all I could get that paid anything remotely respectable and they even do paid training. It's seems to be one of a rapidly dwindling handful of paths for new grads who are graduating and finding out th…

> continually put my resume through those resume threads on reddit From curiosity, and certainly not to offend.. you _did_ place your resume elsewhere as well, right?

I meant resume critique/improvement threads. I put the resume on sites like Monster as well as sending it to specific postings, usually customized for that posting.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#135

Post by crdoconnor » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

nova22033 wrote: post #111

Apocryphon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a long time the anti-H1B segment has been critical of Big Tech for trying to undercut American tech workers instead in investing in citizens. So now they're investing in the wrong citizens?

There are a LOT of people in tech who are really insecure about their own jobs. They see any move like this as a plot by bigcorp to undermine their job prospects. Training kids to code? Yup..threat to their own job.

>There are a LOT of people in tech who are really insecure about their own jobs.

If the rest of the job market looked like it did in the 1950s, sure - no problem. I don't see any reason to feel particularly secure when this is what's going on outside of tech though:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/28/adjunct-prof...

>They see any move like this as a plot by bigcorp to undermine their job prospects.

Either tech bigcorp is concerned about their bottom line or they aren't. If they are, then wouldn't it be economically rational to try and reduce their largest expense - developer wages?

I wonder sometimes if people are really naive enough to think that Mark Zuckerberg is trying to "reform immigration" or "get CS taught in primary schools" out of the goodness of his heart.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#136

Post by Apocryphon » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

arjie wrote: post #131

Apocryphon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. 19th century unions in the U.S. were often racist and or nativist, seeing non-WASPs workers as a threat. But surely a unions formed by 21st century tech workers with over a century of historical wisdom and the modern day spirit of innovation should be able to do better, no?

I sincerely cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or not. The first order of business of any tech union will be to stall the H1-B program and then follow that up with strict gatekeeping rules. Just read HN, a supposedly enlightened class of programmers. It's all short term protectionism from people insecure of their ability.

Surely an industry that prides itself on thinking different can figure out new and innovative solutions to seemingly impossible problems.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#137

Post by heroprotagonist » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #134

heroprotagonist wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> continually put my resume through those resume threads on reddit From curiosity, and certainly not to offend.. you _did_ place your resume elsewhere as well, right?

I meant resume critique/improvement threads. I put the resume on sites like Monster as well as sending it to specific postings, usually customized for that posting.

Oh, good, that makes a lot more sense. Sorry for my confusion.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#138

Post by Apocryphon » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

marnett wrote: post #124

Apocryphon wrote: post #55

To the critics in this thread- maybe it's time to consider unionizing tech workers after all?

I agree but how? Or would co-op consulting shops make more sense?

Why not try both? The point is that the status quo is untenable, corporate power is going to commodify devs just as they have done to workers in many other industries, and you might as well try fixing about it rather than getting disrupted like so many other dinosaur entities that tech has done to.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#139

Post by vkou » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:10 PM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #79

Apocryphon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a long time the anti-H1B segment has been critical of Big Tech for trying to undercut American tech workers instead in investing in citizens. So now they're investing in the wrong citizens?

I swear, many of the HN crowd seems like they'd be happiest if they were the only developer on the planet.

You should ask taxi drivers about how they feel about millions of people getting paid peanuts to drive for Lift and Uber.

Or lawyers about how they feel about millions of people with law degrees unable to find work as lawyers.

Or Physics PHDs about how they feel driving a cab^wUber.

Or musicians, who live off selling t-shirts.

Why do you think supply and demand does not apply to the IT labour market?

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#140

Post by dv_dt » Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 9:10 PM UTC

aswanson wrote: post #114

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was the case, then why wouldn't Google just tap this global labor reserve instead of training people? Why is the federal reserve expecting inflation to rise as unemployment continues to be low?

"If the sky is so clear and the sun is shining, how could there possibly be a hurricane approaching...?"

Those of us who depend upon exchanging our labor to survive are in a mercenary situation (some in better situations than others). But I think it's a stretch to equate it to a physical source of scarcity, but maybe I'm taking your analogy too far...