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Bubble – Visual Programming

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Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#121

Post by beaconstudios »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #26

Professional programmers often scoff at these kinds of tools, a lot of time for good reason. However I believe that with the right approach such a system could also speed development for a lot of serious and complex development efforts. It would have to use standard pro level libraries and tools underneath, with the easy UI being essentially and abstraction over of subset of the functionality. This would allow it to…

I'm trying to solve this issue at the moment - it's really quite difficult to distill the "core components" of something like web development without leaving that's commonly-used out of the picture, but my project is slowly getting there. I'm aiming for an MVP launch within the next couple of months, feel free to check my profile for the early signup link if you're interested.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#122

Post by grandchild »

_mhr_ wrote: post #119
grandchild wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even with an option to fall into a full text-based programming language. I started with C and then turned to VVVV [0] for a while (now using Python). VVVV enabled me to do a lot of media-related things, that I would have had a hard time doing otherwise. It still has a special place in my heart :) [0] http://vvvv.org

Which Python libraries do use for media-related things?

I do less media-related things these days. If I would, I'd go back to VVVV. (Or something like that, only for Linux)

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#123

Post by xaedes »

icebraining wrote: post #114
xaedes wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use visual programming all the time. On my whiteboard. The task to convert that into code is trivial. Only manual labour. If I could stay on the whiteboard with my pen and compile parts of my program from there, that would be awesome. Btw: I tried some "Smart" Whiteboards, but they are all just bad quality. Real whiteboards are still superior for whatever you do with whiteboarsd.

Are your drawings precise enough that someone else could keep working on them without ever talking to you?

Your point being, that a secondary information channel is necessary because the whiteboard drawing itself isn't complete?

I guess a lot of times formal errors and the like will happen on whiteboard. So no, the drawings probably aren't precise enough.

The process needs to be a dialog. Similar to the interaction you have with your compiler: You provide stuff. "Computer says no" (or tells you what is missing/etc) You alter your stuff and give it back to your tool. That loop repeats.

Something similar will be necessary for "whiteboard programming".

I guess it is not as trivial to convert drawings to code as I stated. But it still a tedious task that should be automated as much as possible.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#124

Post by carlmr »

coldtea wrote: post #109
carlmr wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human language evolved over years to let us describe everything in detail on a very abstract level. Computer languages inherit a lot these features from human language. My favorite analogy: Visual programming languages are like a foreigner going to a Korean McDonald's. He can grunt at pictures and get what he points at, but he can only do a limited set of things that were envisioned by the menu planner. You can't get…

> My favorite analogy: Visual programming languages are like a foreigner going to a Korean McDonald's. He can grunt at pictures and get what he points at, but he can only do a limited set of things that were envisioned by the menu planner. You can't get the burger without tomatoes by grunting. Also a wrong analogy. You can have 100% power/syntax parity between a visual language and any text language.

You can make a McDonald's menu that can represent everything you want to say in a text language with 100% power/syntax parity. But then it becomes too burdensome for the user. Just like most visual programming languages that have all these features make things much more complicated just to make it visual.
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