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Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

bbc.com

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Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#81

Post by eksemplar »

Yetanfou wrote: post #62

Placed in the perspective of the current political climate in Sweden I can not be but sceptic against research which tries to make islam part of Sweden's history. While the article is published by the BBC, the research - for what it is - was done in Uppsala. That Vikings travelled to islamic countries is known. That they traded with them - willingly or unwillingly - is also known. They did the same with many other cu…

The article is based on research done by an archeologist at a university who wasn't looking for evidence of Arabic culture. The research hasn't yet concluded anything.

What do you base your statement on? Your gut?

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#82

Post by irb »

Glyptodon wrote: post #3

What makes it plausible to assume a deeper connection than trade for an average case of this sort?

No one is assuming anything, they are investigating. It's what archaeologists and historians do when they find something interesting.

Why are you so quick to want to shut it down?

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#83

Post by jmnicolas »

int_19h wrote: post #61
lucaspiller wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Lithuania (well the empire, so Poland and Belarus too) there were a large number of Muslim settlers who arrived in the 14th century. They were known for their military strength and were invited by Vytautas to aid in the efforts against the Christian Crusaders. If military prowess was as highly regarded as we believe to the Vikings, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did something similar too.

It's entirely possible that there were converts, as well. Many European cultures pre-Christianization had pretty broad-minded attitudes towards religion, and while the majority would adhere to the predominant pagan tradition, some individuals and families would sometimes convert to another religion when exposed to it. Especially given the rather pragmatic attitude towards religious worship among pagans at the time, c…

Is there a reason given why he wanted to choose a religion ?

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#84

Post by chewz »

Not only Vikings were traveling as far as Constantinople but also Muslim traders were coming as far as Baltic.

Ibrahim ibn Yaqub [1] trader - Hispano-Arabic Sepharadi Jew (quite a pedigree) have left chronicle of his journeys as far as Wolin [2] and Rugen [3] - islands inhabited at the time by Weneds (Rani) - Slavian vikings - where contacts with Scandinavian Vikings were daily occurrence.

There were probably other traders.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_ibn_Yaqub

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCgen#Slavic_Rani

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolin

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#85

Post by diminish »

rusk wrote: post #79
Yetanfou wrote: post #62

Placed in the perspective of the current political climate in Sweden I can not be but sceptic against research which tries to make islam part of Sweden's history. While the article is published by the BBC, the research - for what it is - was done in Uppsala. That Vikings travelled to islamic countries is known. That they traded with them - willingly or unwillingly - is also known. They did the same with many other cu…

That all sounds a bit far fetched if you ask me. A more likely explanation is trade and cultural exchange [EDIT] and expropriation. The Vikings roamed far and wide [0] [1], and Islam even made it as far as Spain at one stage [2] As far as they went though they probably never got as far as East Asia where they could have encountered Buddhism. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings#Viking_Age [1] https://en.wikipedi…

Does "cultural exchange" include looting and pillage? It may seem hard to accept nationalistically for Scandinavians but most Vikings stuff in tombs are the result of not a production economy.

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#87

Post by chewz »

lokimedes wrote: post #43

The Swedish vikings are known to have travelled, traded and served as guards for the Ottomans. Most people equate Vikings with the Danish/Norwegian raids and voyages in western europe and the atlantic. It’s an interesting discovery, but the article lacks a bit of context. (Source: Historical Atlas of the Vikings by John Haywood, also a history interested dane/norseman).

The Ottoman Turkey did not exists at the time. Even for Seljuk Turkish state it was a little too early.

You mean Byzantium - Constantinople was called Miklagard by Vikings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians

http://www.viking.no/e/turkey/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuq_dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#88

Post by demonshalo »

eksemplar wrote: post #81
Yetanfou wrote: post #62

Placed in the perspective of the current political climate in Sweden I can not be but sceptic against research which tries to make islam part of Sweden's history. While the article is published by the BBC, the research - for what it is - was done in Uppsala. That Vikings travelled to islamic countries is known. That they traded with them - willingly or unwillingly - is also known. They did the same with many other cu…

The article is based on research done by an archeologist at a university who wasn't looking for evidence of Arabic culture. The research hasn't yet concluded anything. What do you base your statement on? Your gut?

As a Swede I can tell you that whatever research comes out of these institutions will be biased. These institutions suffer to a large degree of self-hatred due to some nasty shit that they've contributed to over the years. For that reason, they try to always publish crap like in order to champion diversity and deny their vicious history. It's basically like how Germans react to their history with Hitler. Merkel had no choice but to welcome Islam as a part of German Society and find post-facto justification for it in order for her not to be seen as "repeating the mistakes of the past". Douglas Murray called it "The True Legacy of Hitler" and it is present in Sweden as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statens_institut_f%C3%B6r_rasb...

Edit: I am not saying that these findings are fake, but rather that these institutions are not as credible as you might think they are when it comes to think kind of topic. Politics drives the discourse in most of them, not science!

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#89

Post by coldtea »

eksemplar wrote: post #81
Yetanfou wrote: post #62

Placed in the perspective of the current political climate in Sweden I can not be but sceptic against research which tries to make islam part of Sweden's history. While the article is published by the BBC, the research - for what it is - was done in Uppsala. That Vikings travelled to islamic countries is known. That they traded with them - willingly or unwillingly - is also known. They did the same with many other cu…

The article is based on research done by an archeologist at a university who wasn't looking for evidence of Arabic culture. The research hasn't yet concluded anything. What do you base your statement on? Your gut?

Usually for those kind of things, it doesn't have to be the research per se. Instead, it's which findings are promoted more in the media, and which are left obscure -- and that's often based on political decisions, what's popular (and can attract grants), and what fits certain narratives (sometimes nationalistic, sometimes globalist, whichever pays better at any given time).

Re: Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves

#90

Post by coldtea »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #78
Yetanfou wrote: post #62

Placed in the perspective of the current political climate in Sweden I can not be but sceptic against research which tries to make islam part of Sweden's history. While the article is published by the BBC, the research - for what it is - was done in Uppsala. That Vikings travelled to islamic countries is known. That they traded with them - willingly or unwillingly - is also known. They did the same with many other cu…

What would be the purpose of in including Islam as part of Swedish culture? Does Sweden want to get into OPEC?

No, just wants to open an opposed part of the population into integrating an increasing number of muslim economic migration.
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