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Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

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Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#191

Post by cpach »

tptacek wrote: post #41
home_boi wrote: post #35

Note that Windows Defender also uploads files on scans which is opt out.

All the mainstream endpoint protection software does this, so if you're going to run it at all --- don't --- you're going to have to pick which company you trust not to do what Kaspersky apparently did.

This makes me curious. How many companies in the Fortune 500 are going without AV software on their Windows PCs? AV software surely is crappy, but it still seems to be standard within a big majority of the large corporations.

Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#192

Post by tvaughan »

I can't recommend Empty Wheel enough for in-depth analysis on these stories. For example: https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/10/11/on-the-kaspersky-hack/

These stories still are almost certainly revealing just a fraction of the story. All ignore Kaspersky’s reports laying out US and allies’ spying tools (explaining why Israel might hack Kaspersky and share the details, if not the work). And the most logical explanation for the FSB démarche is that Kaspersky — as they said at the time — reported the hack to their relevant law enforcement agency, which is the FSB, who in turn yelled at the CIA.

See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15441516

Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#193

Post by auganov »

tallanvor wrote: post #185
auganov wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to expand on the "theft and premature release of Stuxnet by Israel"? Most information seems to point to it being a joint US-Israeli creation or even primarily Israeli. We do know for a fact that US General James Cartwright pleaded guilty to leaking Stuxnet. And then got pardoned by Obama.

No, he pleaded guilty to making false statements, not to leaking Stuxnet. More specifically, he admitted to providing classified information to reporters in 2012, over a year after Stuxnet was identified. Now, whether or not he was guilty of more than that, I don't think we know, but that's often the nature of plea deals.

Good catch, sorry about the fake info!

Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#195

Post by mikevm »

erdojo wrote: post #138

This is what I read between the lines: An NSA spook was working on his home laptop and playing around with some special NSA malware. Kaspersky AV detected it - AS IT SHOULD - based on heuristic or behavior-based technology that just about every modern AV has. The data was sent back to Kaspersky servers. This is also how everyone else does it, because this is how A/V companies create signatures that are pushed out to…

According to the NYT article[0]:

> Israeli intelligence officers informed the N.S.A. that in the course of their Kaspersky hack, they uncovered evidence that Russian government hackers were using Kaspersky’s access to aggressively scan for American government classified programs, and pulling any findings back to Russian intelligence systems. They provided their N.S.A. counterparts with solid evidence of the Kremlin campaign in the form of screenshots and other documentation, according to the people briefed on the events.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/technology/kaspersky-lab-...

Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#197

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Bendingo wrote: post #87
guelo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I find it annoying in these threads how people refuse to acknowledge that we have much stronger rule of law in the west. Even though it's flawed and abused, every rational actor prefers our system.

> we have much stronger rule of law in the west Domestically perhaps, but not when it comes to international law (eg. sanctioning torture, extrajudicial killings, drone strikes, illegal invasion etc.)

> Domestically perhaps, but not when it comes to international law

One of these is a thing with courts, enforcement mechanisms, et cetera. The other is really only relevant for preventing war between global powers, i.e. the Security Council.

Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#198

Post by JumpCrisscross »

memeCrasher wrote: post #186
guelo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I find it annoying in these threads how people refuse to acknowledge that we have much stronger rule of law in the west. Even though it's flawed and abused, every rational actor prefers our system.

>I find it annoying in these threads how people refuse to acknowledge that we have much stronger rule of law in the west. No we don't. We have a stronger belief in the rule of law, but not an actual practice of rule of law. It's been getting worse and worse over the past two decades and at this point I see little difference between any particular western government and Russia's. If you haven't noticed it, you've been…

> at this point I see little difference between any particular western government and Russia's

There is quality research in measuring, quantitatively and qualitatively, the rule of law [1].

While disagreement abounds around methods and data, it's pretty universally observed that the rule of law in Russia is worse than that in the West.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joseph_Bajjalieh/public...

Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#199

Post by kharms »

acqq wrote: post #163
kharms wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everything else is speculation" ignores the well sourced "speculation" about Kaspersky's next step: letting the FSB know about this contractor so they could target and breach his machine. It's speculative in the sense that we weren't there, but the information comes from the same source as all of those facts.

Where did you read "letting the FSB know about this contractor so they could target and breach his machine." I somehow missed to see that anybody but you claims that, so please give some link. I also, like the parent poster, only read that the antvirus program, as it should, collected the virus to the company servers.

I read that in the WSJ article that first revealed the security breach.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-hackers-stole-nsa-data-...

>The hackers appear to have targeted the contractor after identifying the files through the contractor’s use of a popular antivirus software made by Russia-based Kaspersky Lab, these people said.

Re: Israel Hacked Kaspersky, Then Tipped NSA Its Tools Had Been Breached

#200

Post by YouKnowBetter »

leereeves wrote: post #184
andreif wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a NSA guy use Russian security software?

Why would an NSA guy put secret government tools on his personal laptop?

Stupid as it may sound, but my experience with many many "why did you take the data there" dramas, the answer is:

To get things done you can not do at the office or you just lack the office time to get it done.

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