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China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

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Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#151
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is part of the single market (including free movement of people) and benefits from it, so, what they did is completely different from what the UK is going to do. But, most importantly, it's much much more disruptive to first join and then pull out that not joining at all.

So basicaly Norway got itself the best possible deal: all benefits of EU membership without any of the downsides (e.g. common currency or political correctnes bullshit).

It's the best possible deal only if you don't care that you don't have any democratic influence on all decisions involving the single market - you just need to accept all regulations as decided by member states. Which I guess is fine for Norway and Switzerland, but wouldn't suit every country. For sure it wouldn't suit the UK.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#152
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, except said rest world denizens from Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea, Nepal, Vietnam, India, Japan and the rest of the countries China wants to screw over. They'll just be terrified. For good reason. This list probably soon will include Pakistan, Afghanistan, and essentially all Southwestern Asiatic countries. Hell, someone might look at a map of China from before Ww1 or so, look at it now, look again saying "wtf…

> This list probably soon will include Pakistan, ... Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Pak-China relations would really be laughing their ass of at this. I won't even bother to correct you there. > At which point it'll be China vs the world. And, historically, China has started such conflicts, Aha, spoken like someone desperate to convince others that the big bad Chinaman is really out to get them. China has is…

The list will include Pakistan because currently China hates India more. They want cards to play against India. I predict that will stop.

India will systematically rise in economic importance from this point forward. China's reasons to make a deal with India are multiplying every day.

The rest of your post is nothing more than moral absolutism. It is wrong.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#153
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those triangulations are possible only if the destination country is willing to pay a premium for the banned goods. Norwegian salmon would cost more in China because the Canadians are going to put some markup on it (and fairly, because they'll have to do some work on their own.) Or keep the same price for the consumer and gain less. In both cases Norway is going to lose money compared to normal commercial relationshi…

Right. Sorry, I didn't explain my thoughts well. This is more what I had in mind: Instead of selling its salmon to China, Norway sells all of its salmon to the US, France and Germany. So now US, French and German consumers buy that much less salmon from other salmon farming countries like Chile and Canada. And Chile and Canada are free to sell their farm-raised salmon to China.

In principle you are right. In practice the supply chains must get some incentive to switch to new suppliers. Perfect cooperation would suffice but usually it's price cuts.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#154
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This list probably soon will include Pakistan, ... Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Pak-China relations would really be laughing their ass of at this. I won't even bother to correct you there. > At which point it'll be China vs the world. And, historically, China has started such conflicts, Aha, spoken like someone desperate to convince others that the big bad Chinaman is really out to get them. China has is…

The list will include Pakistan because currently China hates India more. They want cards to play against India. I predict that will stop. India will systematically rise in economic importance from this point forward. China's reasons to make a deal with India are multiplying every day. The rest of your post is nothing more than moral absolutism. It is wrong.

> The list will include Pakistan because ... (some India rah rah rah stuff) ... I predict that will stop.

Hmm, did you just read some of Orson Card's books and started believing that you are the Hegemon or something?

Have you communicated your proclamation/prediction to the Chinese, so that they know what to do in the near future, to avoid you having egg on your face?

> The rest of your post is nothing more than moral absolutism.

Torture is torture. Kidnapping is kidnapping. Deliberately targeting and killing civilians is murder. Campaigns of mass bombing of civilian targets (without any declaration of war on said localities) is terrorism, whether its done by those in uniform or not, or whether its done from the ground or the air.

Thats not "moral absolutism" taken to an extreme.

Its what you're left with when you strip away the whiny excuses, coverups and propaganda (from all sides), and just at look at things for what they are.

The term for that is not "moral absolutism", its "common sense".

> It is wrong.

Read the above, grab a mirror, go find a quiet corner, sit down, and take a good long hard look at yourself.

(and if you are going to reply, please spare us all the amateur philosophy-for-dummies garbage. Thanks much!)

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#155
post #29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway at least have no current interest in EU membership. Support for EU membership has for a long time been so low (last year polls indicated 71% no, compared to an almost even result in the '94 referendum) that there's no prospect of another EU referendum anytime soon.

I agree with your comment, but given the tone / details of the questions you answer to I would like to add "... Compared to their current situation". Norway's low will to join the EU as full member is not because they don't like it or are moving away from it , but because they already have everything they want from it, and a few exceptions specifically "for them" in a custom made package they're fine paying the price…

Actual public skepticism to even EEA membership is higher than it's been in a very long time.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#156
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Norway's low will to join the EU as full member is not because they don't like it or are moving away from it , but because they already have everything they want from it These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Public sentiment has historically leaned towards EU skepticism, something which hasn't been helped by witnessing the EU's broad managerial incompetence (and occasionally petty vindictiveness) on everythi…

I'm curious why everyone laughed at England for Brexit but has seemingly no opinion on Norway, it seems illogical.

Norway is in a special case by being substantially wealthier to the extent that Norway can basically buy its way out of most of the problems the UK has.

At the same time, through the EEA Norway is much closer associated to the EU than the Brexit crowd wants the UK to be. Including e.g. accepting Schengen which the UK didn't participate in even as a member of the EU.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#157
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list will include Pakistan because currently China hates India more. They want cards to play against India. I predict that will stop. India will systematically rise in economic importance from this point forward. China's reasons to make a deal with India are multiplying every day. The rest of your post is nothing more than moral absolutism. It is wrong.

> The list will include Pakistan because ... (some India rah rah rah stuff) ... I predict that will stop. Hmm, did you just read some of Orson Card's books and started believing that you are the Hegemon or something? Have you communicated your proclamation/prediction to the Chinese, so that they know what to do in the near future, to avoid you having egg on your face? > The rest of your post is nothing more than mora…

Moral absolutism:

> Torture is torture. Kidnapping is kidnapping. Deliberately targeting and killing civilians is murder. Campaigns of mass bombing of civilian targets (without any declaration of war on said localities) is terrorism, whether its done by those in uniform or not, or whether its done from the ground or the air.

It's funny how you debase moral absolutism, then proceed to give an absolutist opinion. You do not know the meaning of the words you use in an argument ...

The really, really bad part about your argument is that it is only leveled against one side, with no recourse. This has exactly one result: any side that listens to moral absolutism has a serious disadvantage, giving sides that don't (who are likely much worse), an advantage. In practice you might not know that, but everyone in washington does, and if they make this argument, they are merely trying to get the US to abandon some fight, usually abandoning scores of people to a much worse fate, and much worse moral actors. For example, China.

This is where the argument falls down. When following through your argument, we get to the point: because India is far (FAR) from perfect in the moral department, we should not care if China wins and Indian people are subjected to the systematic extermination they suffered under Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Chinese rule.

Can I just say ... No we shouldn't. And frankly, if we have to bomb or even nuke a town containing many children into the ground, that action might be justified. Obviously such decisions shouldn't be made quickly or easily, but excluding them is ... just not how the world works. Most western Europeans don't begrudge the US and UK's firebombing of many European capitals, despite how it has affected their families. And only God knows how many children that killed. Total number of victims of the military actions, incidentally, far exceeds the numbers of the holocaust. So, perhaps, and despite how cruel it sounds, focusing on the war itself rather than helping camp victims was probably the right decision.

Here's some examples of moral relativism:

Given parties A and B, who are in conflict. Who is morally superior ?

Example: Kemal Ataturk. He was a racist massacring his way across small Asia. He destroyed what remained of the rule of law in most of Africa. He killed children en-masse for racist reasons, among a list of other crimes that is too numerous to list. He was also, by far, the moral superior of the muslim caliph he defeated. By about a factor 5, or 6, only counting civilians.

Or we can name the less desirable qualities of Winston Churchill. He is a man of the sort of character that would send men, with orders to kill indiscriminately, into a hopeless battle. Why ? He banally evil. He was a moron. 30 minutes of research would have told him the situation, but he, quite literally, couldn't be bothered. He also thought that they didn't deserve provisions if it meant his cigarettes might be late. After all, what are a few thousand dead compared to having to do ~2 days without a smoke ready ? And yet, I very much appreciate what he (eventually) helped to achieve.

You can see the difference between relativism and absolutism now, I hope ?

I hope you can also understand how, in a real and very much non-imaginary world with limited choices, how moral relativism is by far the superior alternative ?

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#158
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The list will include Pakistan because ... (some India rah rah rah stuff) ... I predict that will stop. Hmm, did you just read some of Orson Card's books and started believing that you are the Hegemon or something? Have you communicated your proclamation/prediction to the Chinese, so that they know what to do in the near future, to avoid you having egg on your face? > The rest of your post is nothing more than mora…

Moral absolutism: > Torture is torture. Kidnapping is kidnapping. Deliberately targeting and killing civilians is murder. Campaigns of mass bombing of civilian targets (without any declaration of war on said localities) is terrorism, whether its done by those in uniform or not, or whether its done from the ground or the air. It's funny how you debase moral absolutism, then proceed to give an absolutist opinion. You d…

> You do not know the meaning of the words you use in an argument

Oh yes, I do. I'm not the fool trying to take some half-baked understanding of ethics-101, and apply it to some quarter-baked knowledge of basic history. Thats you. Keep me out of it.

(ignoring paragraphs of drivel, where you're under the mistaken illusion that you're somehow engaging in a high-minded conceptual dicussion avec moi)

Here's the problem you're not getting. From where I'm sitting, you come across as a nitwit with a very very poor knowledge of basic history, and an over-inflated opinion of his own "future projections".

That alone makes it hard to take you seriously. Along with your championing of terrorism and nuclear weapons.

Now, when you combine that with your eagerness to mix in philosophy, and start lecturing - while still showing many gaps in your own logic and understanding of said terms.

The effect is comedic.

Unfortunately, the strong whiff of anti-Muslim bigotry which seems to poke its ugly head from your delusional writings is less comedic.

Case in point: Kemal Ataturk, who was part of the Young Turks movement that effectively lead Turkey through WW1, Armenian genocide and all - was somehow the moral superior of the Muslim Caliph he "defeated"? (err, when was that?) No doubt, this is all from some made up alternative history you're living in?

In short, you're a kook. And quite probably a bigoted one too, at that (just surmising). Yes you have a keyboard, and an ISP willing to let you loose. But no, that doesn't make you any less irrelevant than you probably are in real life.

Whatever your ailments, suffer them in silence. Don't involve me.

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