Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated • Hacker News Board

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#21

Post by lotyrin » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:11 PM UTC

jdmichal wrote: post #13

komali2 wrote: post #9

I'm ambivalent about all the weirdness about digital books. On the one hand, I kinda get why San Francisco Public Library has to "pretend" it can only loan out 20 "digital copies" of "The Subtle Art of not Giving a Fuck" at a time, because I guess if you could just instantly use the Libby app to throw it on your kindle and renew endlessly, why would anybody ever buy a book? Still, it is "fake" prohibitions. There's l…

> I really hope I get to live long enough to see society have to tackle the "oh fuck, currency as a concept is useless" problem, aka the steps leading up to post-scarcity. I would only want to see that if we were already post-scarcity. Otherwise, there's going to be a lot of bloodshed as people figure it out and realize they don't have any way to continue buying the things they require to live. Post-scarcity is great…

Globally, we are pretty much post-scarce on anything anyone "requires to live".

The struggle will be to find out how all the rest gets divided when controlling distribution of the right to live is no longer a bargaining position and discovering if we can still provide for everyone without servitude.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#22

Post by Turing_Machine » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:20 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #11

orblivion wrote: post #6

Does someone know the difference between what archive.org will take and what Gutenberg will take? It seems like they should just coalesce into one data set, right? I imagine archive.org can easily fit the Gutenberg data set; you can reasonably get it yourself via Kiwix.

Isn't gutenberg more "crowd-sourced?" I remember participating in some sort of editing program there a while back.

Right. The Gutenberg books have typically been proofread by human beings, while the straight IA books are usually raw scans that have been OCRed.

Edit: it should be pointed out that there's a lot of overlap here. As far as I know, all Gutenberg books get uploaded to IA. Conversely, IA scans are often used as the starting point for Gutenberg projects.

But, in general, the advantage of Gutenberg releases is better proofreading, while the advantage of IA is much wider coverage.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#23

Post by chameleonSkin » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:25 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #2

> Now it is the chance for libraries and citizens who have been reticent to scan works beyond 1923, to push forward to 1941, and the Internet Archive will host them. If individuals have private scans of rare books (1923 - 1941), how should these scans be delivered to Internet Archive for hosting? Does "not being sold" mean out of print? Used, out-of-print books may still be sold. In fact, that's sometimes the only wa…

From the text of the law:

"(2) No reproduction, distribution, display, or performance is authorized under this subsection if— (A) the work is subject to normal commercial exploitation; (B) a copy or phonorecord of the work can be obtained at a reasonable price"

I'd imagine that "normal commercial exploitation" would generally mean an item that is currently in print, although I could see other theoretical cases this would cover (for example, the work is not technically being printed anymore but there is a huge stock of existing volumes on the market).

I don't think reselling rare volumes would fall under this category - that could be "commercial exploitation", but certainly not "normal".

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#24

Post by skissane » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #9

I'm ambivalent about all the weirdness about digital books. On the one hand, I kinda get why San Francisco Public Library has to "pretend" it can only loan out 20 "digital copies" of "The Subtle Art of not Giving a Fuck" at a time, because I guess if you could just instantly use the Libby app to throw it on your kindle and renew endlessly, why would anybody ever buy a book? Still, it is "fake" prohibitions. There's l…

> I really hope I get to live long enough to see society have to tackle the "oh fuck, currency as a concept is useless" problem, aka the steps leading up to post-scarcity.

When people talk about "post-scarcity", they are talking about the basic necessities of life becoming so cheap they are basically free. But, even in such a "post-scarcity" world, we will always still have finite resources, and human aspirations will always exceed those finite resources, and so we will always need some mechanism to arbitrate access. Either we use market-based mechanisms (which implies the existence of currencies), or else we turn to socialist-style central planning, in which the government gets to decide who has their aspirations fulfilled and who misses out.

Suppose a billion people all want to live in Venice. Sorry, just can't be done, there isn't enough room, it would totally destroy the city if we tried, we'll have to say "No" to some of them. You might say "we'll just give them a simulated Venice which is indistinguishable from the real thing" – but as long as they know it is not the real thing, they'll want the real thing instead. "Authenticity" is one of those things that humans desire.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#25

Post by dhimes » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:31 PM UTC

c3534l wrote: post #16

komali2 wrote: post #9

I'm ambivalent about all the weirdness about digital books. On the one hand, I kinda get why San Francisco Public Library has to "pretend" it can only loan out 20 "digital copies" of "The Subtle Art of not Giving a Fuck" at a time, because I guess if you could just instantly use the Libby app to throw it on your kindle and renew endlessly, why would anybody ever buy a book? Still, it is "fake" prohibitions. There's l…

All copyright prohibitions are "fake." In our current society, all supply shortages of media are artificial.

The interesting question here is, are the shortages necessary to have high quality media? I would love to have an HN-filtered list of reading on the arguments- both sides. I personally only have an ill-informed, therefore worthless, opinion.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#26

Post by petercooper » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:35 PM UTC

skissane wrote: post #24

komali2 wrote: post #9

I'm ambivalent about all the weirdness about digital books. On the one hand, I kinda get why San Francisco Public Library has to "pretend" it can only loan out 20 "digital copies" of "The Subtle Art of not Giving a Fuck" at a time, because I guess if you could just instantly use the Libby app to throw it on your kindle and renew endlessly, why would anybody ever buy a book? Still, it is "fake" prohibitions. There's l…

> I really hope I get to live long enough to see society have to tackle the "oh fuck, currency as a concept is useless" problem, aka the steps leading up to post-scarcity. When people talk about "post-scarcity", they are talking about the basic necessities of life becoming so cheap they are basically free. But, even in such a "post-scarcity" world, we will always still have finite resources, and human aspirations wil…

Agree with most of your post except: as long as they know it is not the real thing, they'll want the real thing instead.

The way both video gaming and social media have exploded as cultural forces makes me think inauthenticity won't be a problem for the majority at some point. Many people already seem more than happy to judge themselves by their friend counts, Instagram likes, and go on voyages and have experiences online rather than meet up in real life.

I personally think simulated Venice could well be better than the real thing for most, as long as the real world remains relatively expensive, dangerous, and uncomfortable (compared to sitting in your house). There will always be people who prefer real experiences, but I think that group will continue to shrink.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#27

Post by Jesus_Jones » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:37 PM UTC

lotyrin wrote: post #21

jdmichal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really hope I get to live long enough to see society have to tackle the "oh fuck, currency as a concept is useless" problem, aka the steps leading up to post-scarcity. I would only want to see that if we were already post-scarcity. Otherwise, there's going to be a lot of bloodshed as people figure it out and realize they don't have any way to continue buying the things they require to live. Post-scarcity is great…

Globally, we are pretty much post-scarce on anything anyone "requires to live". The struggle will be to find out how all the rest gets divided when controlling distribution of the right to live is no longer a bargaining position and discovering if we can still provide for everyone without servitude.

There are plenty of poor places with people starving, even though we have enough food to give it to people. But even in the usa, there are people who don't get enough to eat. in Seattle I often see news stories about the food bank.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#28

Post by Stratoscope » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:44 PM UTC

Just a reminder for anyone who values the Internet Archive as much as I do: it's easy to set up an automatic monthly donation.

If IA were a SaaS, they could easily charge more than my modest contribution and I would gladly pay it.

If you only know IA from the Wayback Machine, take a look at the other things they offer and you will find something of interest. I was delighted recently to find that they had digitized my BYTE Magazine articles from the '80s!

Of more general interest, IA has the entire Prelinger Archives, including all the wonderful Jam Handy films and A Trip Down Market Street Before the Fire:

https://archive.org/details/TripDownMarketStreetrBeforeTheFi...

If you previously saw the original version with the ending that is out of frame sync, this one is cleaned up so you can watch it from beginning to end. Look for the gentleman with the windblown beard when they stop at the Ferry Building.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#29

Post by PhasmaFelis » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:48 PM UTC

Jesus_Jones wrote: post #27

lotyrin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globally, we are pretty much post-scarce on anything anyone "requires to live". The struggle will be to find out how all the rest gets divided when controlling distribution of the right to live is no longer a bargaining position and discovering if we can still provide for everyone without servitude.

There are plenty of poor places with people starving, even though we have enough food to give it to people. But even in the usa, there are people who don't get enough to eat. in Seattle I often see news stories about the food bank.

Exactly. We could feed, house, and care for everyone, if we wanted to. The main problem is that we're still stuck on the agricultural notion that the moral right to live must be purchased through labor or capital.

Re: Books from 1923 to 1941 Now Liberated

#30

Post by PhasmaFelis » Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

skissane wrote: post #24

komali2 wrote: post #9

I'm ambivalent about all the weirdness about digital books. On the one hand, I kinda get why San Francisco Public Library has to "pretend" it can only loan out 20 "digital copies" of "The Subtle Art of not Giving a Fuck" at a time, because I guess if you could just instantly use the Libby app to throw it on your kindle and renew endlessly, why would anybody ever buy a book? Still, it is "fake" prohibitions. There's l…

> I really hope I get to live long enough to see society have to tackle the "oh fuck, currency as a concept is useless" problem, aka the steps leading up to post-scarcity. When people talk about "post-scarcity", they are talking about the basic necessities of life becoming so cheap they are basically free. But, even in such a "post-scarcity" world, we will always still have finite resources, and human aspirations wil…

I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting that everyone should get everything they want. Everyone should be entitled to a small apartment reasonably near their preferred location, clothes, food, medical care, and a small stipend for necessaries, without having to prove their worthiness through labor. If you want an apartment in Venice, or a New York penthouse, or a Lamborghini? Then you need to get a job.

I feel like this could work really well for artists. Live on UBI, produce as much as you like, and put it on the internet. If people like it, and you want more money to play with, start a Patreon or similar. Everybody wins.