Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 139 posts

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#71

Post by bitmapbrother »

psykotic wrote: post #25
mankash666 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to run your own app store, like Amazon fire devices, and not subscribe to GMS. Why shouldn't Google get something in return for enabling phone makers with an OS and app store? They're a for profit company after all

Sure, and the AFA has a pro-developer and pro-consumer side by reducing fragmentation. But I think it's important to understand that the open source aspect of Android is a small part of the story in practice for device makers. The narrative that Google is just "giving it away for free" is naive at best for the very reason you state: they're a profit-driven megacorp.

Can you name another OS that has had as many forks as Android?

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#72

Post by mankash666 »

SXX wrote: post #66
mankash666 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not naive, but everyone takes the OS source code and platform for granted, and asks, "what else can I get"? It's obvious that Android has enabled and continues to enable an ecosystem of hardware companies to thrive. These companies have tried repeatedly to build their own software, but with NO commercial success. Imagine a world with an Apple like Android, Google owning the software, closed sourced, walled, yada…

> That's still a possibility if the ludicrous EU actions on Android don't stop. Google makes about 1/10th the revenue and 1/100th the profit off Android as Apple makes off the iOS product lines. Google doesn't need to make money off hardware or software, it's an ad company. Yeah sure they'll just go and remove themselves from mobile ads market because laughable penalties EU apply on them.

FYI - the ad industry's future is uncertain, given the advent of ad-blockers & privacy laws. Selling phones with a proven OS, on the other hand, is a straightforward model.

If the EU's fines are laughable, I think the status quo will persist. But if Google is beholden to Apple & phone makers who use the very OS it provides & builds, cutting others off and owning the hardware isn't far fetched. Why do you think HTC was acquired?

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#73

Post by fjksksvdjsjd »

neonhomer wrote: post #21
gumby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the contrary, Apple's ecosystem is completely closed Their App Store is a monopoly, but I have friends who use iPhones and use Google's Inbox, Google's search app, Chrome browser, Google Maps and Waze etc and don't use the built-in defaults. I guess they like the hardware. So maybe I'm not interpreting "completely closed" correctly. > ... In the name of user centricity, their platform places arbitrary restrictio…

I'm one of those people who gladly use an iPhone with mostly Google apps (namely Chrome, Gmail and Maps). My little experience with Android has always been negative. The only real annoyance with iOS is you can't set Chrome nor Maps as default applications.

Or inbox/gmail. All mailto links are hardwired to the shitty built-in imap client.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#74

Post by fjksksvdjsjd »

freehunter wrote: post #19
colechristensen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells Apple phones with Apple iOS. Notgoogle sells Notgoogle phones with Google Android. Futzing with what another company does with it's product can get you anticompetitive interest. If you want to talk about Apple being anticompetetive talk about how you can't buy/rent movies on Google Play, Amazon, etc. apps on iOS. Even so, Apple has a much better legal stance for curating it's own market than Google (Alpha…

>you can't buy/rent movies on Google Play, Amazon, etc. apps on iOS Isn't that a choice Google and Amazon make because they don't want to pay Apple's fees for sales going through their marketplace? If that's the case, it doesn't seem anticompetitive, since everyone is charged the same fees no matter what. Google and Amazon just don't want to pay it. Same thing as the Kindle Store, you can't buy Kindle books through t…

Anti competitive or not, it’s terrible for consumers.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#75

Post by visarga »

Terr_ wrote: post #31
leggomylibro wrote: post #7

Everyone is paying more to acquire users these days. I haven't read the book that coins them as 'attention merchants,' but it seems like an accurate description, and their product is getting to be scarce and expensive. I've got things to do, and when I waste time I'd like it to be wasted in a way that relaxes or recharges me or the people I care about. Not that there isn't such a thing as good advertising, but the tr…

A big problem is that once being a bulk attention merchant isn't appealing, they'll double-down on finding ways to creepily invade your privacy, profile you, and resell that profile to companies you'd rather didn't have your information.

We need a browser that is more private than what we have today. Something to hide the IP and separate online identities on various sites, and monitor the data being sent out not to contain your personal information, even if it was sent by your own mistake (like, referencing your secret reddit account on your public name email).

Privacy has similarities to hygiene. We have learned, through a lot of suffering, the importance of hygiene in daily life, we need to learn a new kind of hygiene now, but people can't do that unaided.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#76

Post by mehrdada »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #70
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same boat. My dream device would be iPhone HW with Android software. I like Android's flexibility, the replaceable home screen instead of the list of apps, the Intents system that lets you replace an app handler with another (Chrome & Maps for example), the much better notification system... I have an iPhone now (because work), and it took a few months to stop grumbling, but I definitely appreciated the ov…

>My dream device would be iPhone HW with Android software It's called the Pixel 2.

Nah, sorry to break it for you, but the Qualcomm chip is nowhere close to A11.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#77

Post by sunstone »

ariwilson wrote: post #55
sunstone wrote: post #48

Google may have expected the Android ecosystem to resemble the DOS/Windows ecosystem of the past ie many diverse companies competing for market share. It hasn't turned out that way. A few major players have come to dominate the cell phone market and the also rans have mostly exited the market. The major's market share now gives them the clout to demand higher fees from Google. And all of this has led Google to now co…

This is not true at all. A huge number of OEMs have come out of China and (to a much lesser extent) the US over the last few years and taken substantial market share. Huawei, Xiaomi, etc.

Ok, but is this the demographic advertisers are trying to reach?

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#78

Post by cududa »

carrier_lost wrote: post #56
Animats wrote: post #46

$19bn. We all knew about Google paying Apple to stay on the iPhone. That's $3bn.[1] There's the old deal with Mozilla to be the default search engine in Firefox, but that's over. But there must be a lot of other deals to add up to $19 billion. That Google has to pay to be on the front of Android handsets is surprising. Isn't that enforced by the bundling agreement Google requires to use the Google-proprietary parts o…

I wonder how much Google pays PC manufacturers to have Chrome as the default browser. A few years ago I purchased a Lenovo laptop that had Chrome pre-installed as the default. The desktop shortcut label was simply "Internet Browser".

Back in 2012 when they were still pushing chrome market share it was $.50-$5 depending on product and manufacturer

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#79

Post by cududa »

ariwilson wrote: post #55
sunstone wrote: post #48

Google may have expected the Android ecosystem to resemble the DOS/Windows ecosystem of the past ie many diverse companies competing for market share. It hasn't turned out that way. A few major players have come to dominate the cell phone market and the also rans have mostly exited the market. The major's market share now gives them the clout to demand higher fees from Google. And all of this has led Google to now co…

This is not true at all. A huge number of OEMs have come out of China and (to a much lesser extent) the US over the last few years and taken substantial market share. Huawei, Xiaomi, etc.

Less than ten percent market share - whoopee, who cares?

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#80

Post by simonh »

holtalanm wrote: post #47
_ea1k wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with some of your critique, but I also think you are giving Apple a little too much credit. Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. This isn't nearly as open as Android phones, where it is a simple matter of checking a box. I definitely agree with you that Google isn't giving away the code for philanthropic reasons, though. I ca…

>Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so Yes. And you have to own one of their overpriced computers too.

Oh for goodness sake, go and get yourself a GNU Stallmanphone or whatever along with the other five or six owners and leave the rest of the world alone. What the heck did Apple ever do to you?
Post reply on HN