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Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#681

Post by maxxxxx »

WorldMaker wrote: post #676
maxxxxx wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very charitable explanation that I find hard to accept. I think it's more that MS .Net development is organized in way that it's easy to do new stuff but hard to maintain an effort long time. In other areas they are able to make progress without breaking everything all the time. C# has stayed backwards compatible while still moving forward quickly. SQL server doesn't release a new version every 2 years that…

Keep in mind that .NET Core is almost the same .NET runtime/framework (little-f) that powers UWP. It's been a huge hurdle across the board, web and desktop alike. I'm sure if the .NET team had had a magic wand to shrink the .NET Framework (cap-f) down to a smaller size and remove all the legacy Win32 code without breaking so much compatibility they would have. It's easy to say in hindsight that they should have tried…

But again they have no upgrade path. They just produce something new and expect everyone to jump on board. My expectation is that UWP will last 2-3 years and then they will have something else that does the same but in a different way and UWP is in maintenance mode.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#682

Post by pjmlp »

pcwalton wrote: post #674
pjmlp wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet I would rather take all of that than dealing with Frankenstein CSS/HTML/JavaScript programming, while making sure it is pixel perfect across all browsers and not making use of the OS features and computer hardware that made me buy it in first place, e.g. WebGL 2.0 on DX 12 GPU. Most of the issues you mention are solved in .NET, WPF and UWP. COM is a breeze to use in Delphi, MFC/ATL, .NET, C++/CX. Windows is much…

> Yet I would rather take all of that than dealing with Frankenstein CSS/HTML/JavaScript programming I wouldn't. > Most of the issues you mention are solved in .NET, WPF and UWP. I wasn't talking about .NET, WPF, and UWP. I was responding to the claim that Petzold-style Win32 apps are better than the Web. > Apparently Windows event system is so bad, that the younger generation re-inventing it in the form of React. Hu…

Petzold-style Win32 apps were already out of fashion on Windows 95.

Apparently others with better knowledge of Web than me, think otherwise about React vs WndProc.

https://bitquabit.com/post/the-more-things-change/

As for your WebGL example, I would have used Swift with SceneKit instead, regarding productivity in native development on Apple systems.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#683

Post by meredydd »

pjmlp wrote: post #680
OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assumptions are outdated

Please provide a link to a Delphi like tool for the Web, including components for backend comunication.

Allow me to present: https://anvil.works/

Visual interface editor? Check.

Component-based UI model? Check. (It's all in Python, everything is an object, very Delphi-ish.)

Back-end communication? Check. (One-line RPC to call functions on the server.)

Database integration? Check.

(The built-in datastore runs on Postgres, and lets you do things like delegate views on a table directly to the client. Mix this with data bindings, and you can create CRUD apps with tiny amounts of code. Or you can start importing the appropriate Python libraries and go to town with your favourite DB.)

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#684

Post by int_19h »

pjmlp wrote: post #626
themacguffinman wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why MS didn't create a UWP emulator or wrapper for Windows 7 is beyond me. No Windows 7 compatibility is the main reason my company isn't bothering with UWP for our desktop software.

Maybe because Windows 7 lacks the sandbox features required?

That's a good argument for not having the app store on Win7, but APIs are a separate matter. If UWP API could be used to write something that is both a store app on Win10, but can also be deployed (let's say, in a manner similar to Electron apps, with the runtime packaged with the app) on Win7, I think we'd see a lot more of them. Even if you had to build it separately, so long as most of UI code could be shared, it's a boon.

As it is, it's easier to just target WPF.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#685

Post by philippeback »

narrator wrote: post #244
dtx1 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked 3 years as a windows phone dev and i'm sorry to say but Microsofts efforts were ... almost insultingly bad. It started with windows phone 8 and the Metro UI. Bad Idea. The UI was too far away from Android/iPhone to be easily ported and adding corporate design to it was hard as it was too different. Silverlight and XAML was okay for the time. Then came windows 8.1 and windows desktop 8 which was universally h…

The thing about the MS platforms that has always been an issue is that they change the developer APIs around all the time. Every year they come out with the latest greatest way to access a database or whatever and it really isn't that much better than what they had last year, but it still requires a rewrite.

This is exactly what made me quit desktop development on Windows. MFC, ATL, COM+ learning going to waste was a bridge too far.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#688

Post by herbst »

YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 wrote: post #255
richardknop wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your device. I have had issues on some laptops, other laptops worked flawlessly. I know this is anecdote but a lot of people share this anecdote.

What was the last Linux laptop you installed a Windows on? (edit: removed unnecessary remark.) The last laptop I did a clean install of Windows (7) on was a HP netbook. Even though it was a Windows machine, and I used their Windows install disc, it was a miserable experience (because I didn't have the separate driver disc). Not only did not the WLAN work, neither did the Ethernet port: the only way to get online was…

This is exactly the kind of experience i base my initial argument on.

Its a pain to get Windows running. Even trying to create a bootable Windows medium without having a prior windows machine is like some kind of freakish experiment whereas Linux (and everything else essentially) usually is fine with a `dd` transfer on a USB medium. (None of my machines has a CD drive.)

More often than not i would find missing drivers after the install. Not everyone has only 100% typical gamer hardware, everything a little more "unique" can be expected to not work properly out of the box if the machine is older than a few years, or newer, and will require manual driver installation.

New Windows versions always introduce the possibility to introduce new driver pains. And dont get me started with updating (drivers, software, libs, OS, ...) generally.

As it is, my mum can install and maintain a Ubuntu, she can however not keep a Windows machine alive for longer than a year. Same thing i've seen with many other non technical users in and around my family. Even thought that is anecdotal again.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#689

Post by herbst »

dbmikus wrote: post #185
herbst wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Ubuntu in 2017 isn't user friendly I really don't know what that phrase is even supposed to mean.

I just installed the latest version of Linux Mint and the default graphics card driver had a bug that caused my entire system to freeze after a few hours of inactivity. To be able to replace Apple or Microsoft, not only do you need user friendliness for how the machine works, but you also need to get rid of all the miscellaneous tech and configuration problems that crop up. As I understand it, Linux laptop sleep/susp…

To be fair the Mint maintainers are well known for doing a bad job for a while now. Why they still tend to be recommended is a mystery to me.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#690

Post by herbst »

bduerst wrote: post #360
herbst wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Ubuntu in 2017 isn't user friendly I really don't know what that phrase is even supposed to mean.

I use Ubuntu but after spending a day trying to fix display drivers I can confirm it's not user friendly. An OS is more than just the software, but the support received from other software/hardware companies.

Very good example actually. Take a look at driver issues within the Windows "Support" community forums. Then do the same with Ubuntu or any Linux really.

For a more enterprice thought, try giving Microsoft a call with a Technical issue and then do the same to the Ubuntu Enterprise team.

One is obviously better than the other in this field. Feel free to decide yourself

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