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Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

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Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#31

Post by Terr_ »

leggomylibro wrote: post #7

Everyone is paying more to acquire users these days. I haven't read the book that coins them as 'attention merchants,' but it seems like an accurate description, and their product is getting to be scarce and expensive. I've got things to do, and when I waste time I'd like it to be wasted in a way that relaxes or recharges me or the people I care about. Not that there isn't such a thing as good advertising, but the tr…

A big problem is that once being a bulk attention merchant isn't appealing, they'll double-down on finding ways to creepily invade your privacy, profile you, and resell that profile to companies you'd rather didn't have your information.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#32

Post by ForHackernews »

shubhamjain wrote: post #12

I wonder how worse it'll play out if Google pulled the plug and stopped paying these fees. These companies would be left with nothing but inferior alternatives (Bing, Yahoo, maybe DDG?). Mozilla tried this by cutting out Google for its default search engine and I don't think it made any meaningful difference. I think, in a certain sense, Google is a risk-averse company. It simply won't gamble with its user base, no m…

Bing isn't that inferior these days. Arguably their video search is better than Google's.

Their main search results are plenty good enough for most normal use cases.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#33

Post by kevin_b_er »

neonhomer wrote: post #21
gumby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the contrary, Apple's ecosystem is completely closed Their App Store is a monopoly, but I have friends who use iPhones and use Google's Inbox, Google's search app, Chrome browser, Google Maps and Waze etc and don't use the built-in defaults. I guess they like the hardware. So maybe I'm not interpreting "completely closed" correctly. > ... In the name of user centricity, their platform places arbitrary restrictio…

I'm one of those people who gladly use an iPhone with mostly Google apps (namely Chrome, Gmail and Maps). My little experience with Android has always been negative. The only real annoyance with iOS is you can't set Chrome nor Maps as default applications.

Don't worry, your default browser is safari and will always be safari. The chrome browser isn't really chrome, just a reskinned safari. Apple doesn't permit any real browsers except safari.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#34

Post by solomatov »

mankash666 wrote: post #2

It's rather sad that Google needs to pay Android makers a fee for installing it's apps, given how Google gives away source code that makes Android exist in the first place. On the contrary, Apple's ecosystem is completely closed, app cut fairly high and non-negotiable at 30% and app store rejections arbitrary at best and blatantly anti competitive at worst. In the name of user centricity, their platform places arbitr…

I am very happy with Apple's restrictions. It's the only large IT company which cares about my privacy, and I don't want to have any apps which do whatever they want on my devices.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#35

Post by _ea1k »

mrtksn wrote: post #30
mankash666 wrote: post #2

It's rather sad that Google needs to pay Android makers a fee for installing it's apps, given how Google gives away source code that makes Android exist in the first place. On the contrary, Apple's ecosystem is completely closed, app cut fairly high and non-negotiable at 30% and app store rejections arbitrary at best and blatantly anti competitive at worst. In the name of user centricity, their platform places arbitr…

We all love Google's products but your comment is needlessly emotional. Google is not charity, it's always good to remember that. Google is not giving away the source code of Android for philanthropic reasons, it's just part of the business model, i.e. the process of money making to pay the employees and the shareholders. Oh and Apple is definitely not putting arbitrary restrictions to anything, all the restrictions…

I agree with some of your critique, but I also think you are giving Apple a little too much credit. Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. This isn't nearly as open as Android phones, where it is a simple matter of checking a box.

I definitely agree with you that Google isn't giving away the code for philanthropic reasons, though. I can't really feel bad for them for having to incentivize handset makers to do things that make Google even more money.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#36

Post by fleitz »

mankash666 wrote: post #2

It's rather sad that Google needs to pay Android makers a fee for installing it's apps, given how Google gives away source code that makes Android exist in the first place. On the contrary, Apple's ecosystem is completely closed, app cut fairly high and non-negotiable at 30% and app store rejections arbitrary at best and blatantly anti competitive at worst. In the name of user centricity, their platform places arbitr…

Likely Google because Apple doesn't enjoy significant market share in the EU

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#37

Post by fleitz »

notyourwork wrote: post #24
gareim wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>app cut fairly high Same as Google's, so it seems standard. >non-negotiable at 30% Reduces for certain types of apps, given specific conditions, but yes for 99.99% it's non-negotiable. Still, it's their platform. >arbitrary at best I'd wager most rejections follow very clear rules. There are some head scratchers, but those aren't the norm, so "at best" is wrong. >Who'd you think the EU would investigate for monopoli…

> Gotta have a monopoly in order to be investigated for it. That implies that anyone investigated for being a monopoly already is one so why investigate at all if you already know the outcome?

There's nothing wrong/illegal with having a monopoly, what is illegal is having a monopoly and having anti-competitive practices.

Hence, you can only be investigated for anti-competitive practices when you have a monopoly because without a monopoly the free market provides sufficient remedies for such practices.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#38

Post by ungzd »

gumby wrote: post #13
mankash666 wrote: post #2

It's rather sad that Google needs to pay Android makers a fee for installing it's apps, given how Google gives away source code that makes Android exist in the first place. On the contrary, Apple's ecosystem is completely closed, app cut fairly high and non-negotiable at 30% and app store rejections arbitrary at best and blatantly anti competitive at worst. In the name of user centricity, their platform places arbitr…

> On the contrary, Apple's ecosystem is completely closed Their App Store is a monopoly, but I have friends who use iPhones and use Google's Inbox, Google's search app, Chrome browser, Google Maps and Waze etc and don't use the built-in defaults. I guess they like the hardware. So maybe I'm not interpreting "completely closed" correctly. > ... In the name of user centricity, their platform places arbitrary restrictio…

> Chrome browser

It's really Safari, but with Google services. Apple forbids other HTML rendering engines.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#39

Post by kn0where »

_ea1k wrote: post #35
mrtksn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all love Google's products but your comment is needlessly emotional. Google is not charity, it's always good to remember that. Google is not giving away the source code of Android for philanthropic reasons, it's just part of the business model, i.e. the process of money making to pay the employees and the shareholders. Oh and Apple is definitely not putting arbitrary restrictions to anything, all the restrictions…

I agree with some of your critique, but I also think you are giving Apple a little too much credit. Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. This isn't nearly as open as Android phones, where it is a simple matter of checking a box. I definitely agree with you that Google isn't giving away the code for philanthropic reasons, though. I ca…

> AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so.

That hasn't been the case for a number of years. As long as you have a Mac, you can download Xcode for free, compile an app, and sync it over to your iOS device.

Re: Google's $19B Black Box Is Worrying Investors

#40

Post by giobox »

_ea1k wrote: post #35
mrtksn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all love Google's products but your comment is needlessly emotional. Google is not charity, it's always good to remember that. Google is not giving away the source code of Android for philanthropic reasons, it's just part of the business model, i.e. the process of money making to pay the employees and the shareholders. Oh and Apple is definitely not putting arbitrary restrictions to anything, all the restrictions…

I agree with some of your critique, but I also think you are giving Apple a little too much credit. Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. This isn't nearly as open as Android phones, where it is a simple matter of checking a box. I definitely agree with you that Google isn't giving away the code for philanthropic reasons, though. I ca…

> Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so.

While this was true in the past, this hasn't been the case for a while if you want to build and run on your own personal device. There are some minor caveats, but if you want to compile and run an app locally on your device you don't need to pay Apple the $99 any more.

The idea that the version of Android that most people actually use is "open" is arguably a myth - when you look at what the "closed" parts of Android now include, it's a large amount of the feature set that actually matters to most ordinary consumers, and is often the "stick" Google uses to get OEM partners to follow the overarching vision for the platform.

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