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Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

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Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#61

Post by mikeash »

dEnigma wrote: post #60
mikeash wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that really fascinates me is that stupidity is one of the few genetic handicaps that society considers acceptable to criticize and blame people for. If a person gets hit by a bus because they have some muscular disorder which causes them to fall in front of it, we would have nothing but sympathy for them. If they get hit by a bus because they're too stupid to remember to look for traffic, most people would…

We blame people for acting stupid, not for being stupid. As you mentioned, someone with an IQ of 90 or higher should have all the mental capacity to go about their day without causing chaos or running in front of a bus. But when they choose to act stupid, inconvenience others and possibly even endanger people, we have every right to blame them for that. If on the other hand a person has an IQ around 60 we can't expec…

Perfect example. Somehow we see it as a people who "choose to act stupid," as if they can just will their brains into being more capable than they are.

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#62

Post by dang »

IndrekR wrote: post #20
dang wrote: post #10

Does anybody have a year for it? I went with 2009 via https://web.archive.org/web/20090601000000*/http://www.zoon.... but it feels like it might be older, especially as the author had been dead for 9 years. Edit: a comment (now deleted) helpfully pointed out the Whole Earth Review, Spring 1987 reference at the bottom. Thanks! Previously: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Basic%20Laws%20of%20Human%20St... . Interesting an…

Wikipedia page of the author [1] claims it was circulated among the friends in 1976 (English) and published in 1988 (Italian). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla

Thank you!

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#63

Post by dang »

jaclaz wrote: post #43
IndrekR wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia page of the author [1] claims it was circulated among the friends in 1976 (English) and published in 1988 (Italian). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla

Yes, it is a "classic", and actually the linked to online version (with the illustrations) is (besides being not complete) somehow much worse (IMHO) than the original, which is a very plain booklet where the cartesian diagrams are less distracting, here it is (from archive.org), the PDF is an actual scan of the booklet: https://archive.org/details/The_Basic_Laws_of_Human_Stupidit... More history about the Author and…

You're probably right about that; such framing has a huge effect on how a text is perceived. But I think in this case having a normal web page might be more important.

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#64

Post by kdamken »

paulajohnson wrote: post #38
kdamken wrote: post #15

What makes a person stupid? If I have a friend who squanders their money while I save and build up wealth, are they stupid? What if they have a much happier and more fulfilling life than I do? If you have a difficult job (like brain surgeon), but are terrible at most of the other parts of your life, does that make you stupid? Are slow readers stupid? What if they invent a product or start a business that makes them a…

"If I have a friend who squanders their money while I save and build up wealth, are they stupid?" No, they are probably "helpless". If they actually have a more fulfilling life then they may be "intelligent". The distinguishing feature of "stupid" people in this typology is that they are the ones who cause grief to others with no gain to themselves. This is not the same as being unintelligent; the intro to the articl…

Seems like such a strange way to define stupidity to me, and why I wasn't a fan of how the paper defined things. Why does it depend on causing grief to others?

I think the CPU analogy is more apt. Some people have faster processors, some have slower ones, but what actually matters is what you do with it.

I know "smart" people who are living at home with their parents doing nothing with their lives, and I know "stupid" people who own successful businesses. That's my problem with the terms, and why I think it depends way more on what you do with your circumstances, rather than the circumstances you were born into.

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#65

Post by gbaygon »

kdamken wrote: post #15

What makes a person stupid? If I have a friend who squanders their money while I save and build up wealth, are they stupid? What if they have a much happier and more fulfilling life than I do? If you have a difficult job (like brain surgeon), but are terrible at most of the other parts of your life, does that make you stupid? Are slow readers stupid? What if they invent a product or start a business that makes them a…

The definition of stupidity is "being lack of intelligence", and the definition of intelligence is "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills".

So maybe a stupid person can only be detected by observing said person during a period of time and measuring the ability to learn from mistakes and update behavior. If the variation on behavior is zero we can say we spotted a stupid person. But, if the variation is positive we are dealing with somebody "learning" and maybe we can "help".

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#66

Post by MaysonL »

runald wrote: post #55

Rather than asserting that the laws of stupidity are an inherent characteristic of people, I think it would be more useful or productive to apply the laws to human actions instead. So the third law would be something like: A stupid action is anything that causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while the executor of action derives no gain and even possibly incurring losses. The laws could serve as a…

One might also usefully characterise social institutions thus. Also technologies. (For instance tetra-ethyl lead in gasoline is in the bandit quadrant, as are cigarettes).

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#67

Post by dEnigma »

mikeash wrote: post #61
dEnigma wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We blame people for acting stupid, not for being stupid. As you mentioned, someone with an IQ of 90 or higher should have all the mental capacity to go about their day without causing chaos or running in front of a bus. But when they choose to act stupid, inconvenience others and possibly even endanger people, we have every right to blame them for that. If on the other hand a person has an IQ around 60 we can't expec…

Perfect example. Somehow we see it as a people who "choose to act stupid," as if they can just will their brains into being more capable than they are.

It's a fact that people sometimes choose to act stupid. I have chosen to act stupid in the past; and when I was reprimanded, I knew exactly why, and how I could've avoided it. I'm not talking about people who are less capable in their mental faculties. Of course nobody should blame someone who is actually mentally handicapped for "stupid actions", or for "acting stupid". That's exactly the difference I was talking about.

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#68

Post by dragontamer »

kdamken wrote: post #15

What makes a person stupid? If I have a friend who squanders their money while I save and build up wealth, are they stupid? What if they have a much happier and more fulfilling life than I do? If you have a difficult job (like brain surgeon), but are terrible at most of the other parts of your life, does that make you stupid? Are slow readers stupid? What if they invent a product or start a business that makes them a…

> What makes a person stupid? If I have a friend who squanders their money while I save and build up wealth, are they stupid?

By the definition of the article, they're likely "helpless" actually.

A stupid person, by the definition of the article, is somebody who manages to consistently destroy gains in most situations. They either hurt the opponent without any gain to themselves, or hurt the opponent while simultaneously hurting themselves.

I think the "colloquial" use of the word "stupid" lines up to the definition of "Helpless" in this article. "Helpless" people hurt themselves while the opponent typically takes advantage of them.

> Are slow readers stupid? What if they invent a product or start a business that makes them a lot of money?

That makes them either a Bandit (someone who is taking money from other people without giving much in return), or Intelligent (someone who manages to take money but do so in such a way to benefit the opponent).

---------------

This "stupid" article is all about four different kinds of people:

1. Intelligent people -- Both sides of a transaction benefit.

2. Bandits -- They benefit, the opponent loses.

3. Helpless -- They tend to lose, while the opponent benefits.

4. Stupid -- Both sides lose, somehow.

The article suggests that most people are either a Bandit or are Helpless... and furthermore, that a good system needs to be designed to consider the effects of "Stupid" people who manage to screw both themselves AND opponents over.

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#69

Post by tgb »

mikeash wrote: post #58
kdamken wrote: post #15

What makes a person stupid? If I have a friend who squanders their money while I save and build up wealth, are they stupid? What if they have a much happier and more fulfilling life than I do? If you have a difficult job (like brain surgeon), but are terrible at most of the other parts of your life, does that make you stupid? Are slow readers stupid? What if they invent a product or start a business that makes them a…

One thing that really fascinates me is that stupidity is one of the few genetic handicaps that society considers acceptable to criticize and blame people for. If a person gets hit by a bus because they have some muscular disorder which causes them to fall in front of it, we would have nothing but sympathy for them. If they get hit by a bus because they're too stupid to remember to look for traffic, most people would…

If you assume that most "stupid" people could avoid these situations if they tried harder and that social pressure to not "be stupid" causes people to act harder to not appear stupid, then it makes sense. (Both of those assumptions may be suspect, but the logic is okay.) This also makes sense of your IQ cutoff observation: some people may not be able to compensate for it with any amount of work or may not be able to understand social pressure.

Re: Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)

#70

Post by swayvil »

kdamken wrote: post #15

What makes a person stupid? If I have a friend who squanders their money while I save and build up wealth, are they stupid? What if they have a much happier and more fulfilling life than I do? If you have a difficult job (like brain surgeon), but are terrible at most of the other parts of your life, does that make you stupid? Are slow readers stupid? What if they invent a product or start a business that makes them a…

Consider the term, "idiot".

The literal meaning (greek?) is "one who lives in a private world of their own".

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