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First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

newscientist.com

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Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#101
post #95

Ok, it seems like a lot of people here think dark matter is a “thing” but it’s not. Dark matter is simply unaccounted for mass in the universe. When we discover mass that we didn’t know about before, the amount of “dark” matter decreases. The word “dark” here merely means “known unknown” because we observe the effect but not the cause. This discovery has unveiled some of the dark matter as baryon particles in a plasm…

>This discovery has unveiled some of the dark matter as baryon particles in a plasma. So some of that dark matter is now known. The article clearly points out that this is not the case. The amount of dark matter is still the same. >Dark matter is simply unaccounted for mass in the universe. The article clearly points out that this is not the case.

You are correct, i misread one of the first paragraphs.

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#102

Dang I read the first paragraph of the article and immediately went searching for the real papers since I didn't expect any media outlet to include them at the bottom, but here they are for anyone who made the same mistake I did! https://arxiv.org/abs/1709.05024 https://arxiv.org/abs/1709.10378 Not a cosmologist but here's my go at the de Graff paper. (Let's get this out of the way, the title is click-bait and the pa…

> Additionally, these baryons have 10x the density of what we observe (so this could potentially be evidence for the first stable baryonic matter composed of second generation quarks, or more likely the binding energies are different from our standard uud/udd nucleon quarks)

No, these results are not evidence for exotic matter. They measured the over-density of the filaments relative to the average background density of the universe.

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> basically only gravity and not EM or other forces I don't understand how physicists make any sense of this in any kind of theory. If you had enough dark matter sitting in some spot that could turn into a star, suddenly the claim is any ordinary matter around it would stay near absolute zero no matter how much nuclear fusion was going on at the same spot? How does that work? Or would dark matter just somehow resist…

We don't know much about what it does do, only what it doesn't do. Scientists have deduced its existence by measuring the speed of the expansion of the universe and determining that the mass that we can see based on the rotation of galaxies, etc. can not account for the speed of the expansion. There should be way more mass out there than there is. We also know that it doesn't seem to react with light otherwise it wou…

Just a clarification: galaxy rotation curves and the observed expansion of the universe are not really related.

The empirically observed expansion of the Universe is the motivating evidence for the existence of Dark Energy. Dark Matter, which is motivated (in part) by the inconsistencies in the rotation curves of galaxies is a separate topic. Despite sharing similarities in their names and the fact that they make up the two biggest chunks of energy/mass in the Universe, Dark Energy and Dark Matter are not actually related. The word 'dark' is really just implying that we have not yet observed anything to explain these two phenomenon.

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#104
post #79

"Both teams took advantage of a phenomenon called the Sunyaev-Zel’dovich effect that occurs when light left over from the big bang passes through hot gas." That just seems unreal to me. Edit: To clarify, I'm not accusing it of being made up. I just think it's amazing.

Yeah, totally. The other mindblowing thing is that since photons are moving at the speed of light, thus time for them pretty much stands still.

Thus, if a photon was created at the moment of the big bang and happens to "bump" into something else today then from the standpoint of the photon, it only "lived" for an instant.

(based on my level of physics understanding, so please do correct me if I'm wrong, thanks)

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#105
post #4

https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/75944s/half_the_univ... > The approximate distribution in the Universe is 5% regular matter, 25% Dark Matter, and 70% Dark Energy. Half of that 5% was missing, and now found. > Regular matter makes stars and visible galaxies, so it is "bright". Dark Matter is so named because it does not make things we can see with telescopes directly - it is "dark". We can see the effects it m…

Thank you! 2.5% of the universe's missing matter has been found.

Not 2.5% of the missing matter. 2.5% of the matter.

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#106

Dang I read the first paragraph of the article and immediately went searching for the real papers since I didn't expect any media outlet to include them at the bottom, but here they are for anyone who made the same mistake I did! https://arxiv.org/abs/1709.05024 https://arxiv.org/abs/1709.10378 Not a cosmologist but here's my go at the de Graff paper. (Let's get this out of the way, the title is click-bait and the pa…

From what I can tell, this basically also proves that large scale plasma exists between all bodies at any scale (planetary to systems to galaxies to clusters), and universe sized Birkeland currents exist; which is something cosmologists have been trying to prove/disprove for awhile. So, not only did they find some of the missing matter, they found some of the missing energy, too. This does, however, screw some of the…

> So, not only did they find some of the missing matter, they found some of the missing energy, too.

Nope, this has nothing to do with dark energy.

> This does, however, screw some of the more classical cosmologists.

Not sure who you're referring to. These results are completely consistent with the standard model of cosmology.

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#107
post #22

im confused about baryons. they say that it is a particle (presumably like an electron or photon or other particle) but then they go on to say that its a gas, not a particle. very confusing.

A baryon is a subatomic particle that is composed of three quarks, such as a proton or a neutron. An electron would be categorized as a lepton, rather than a baryon as it is not made of multiple quarks and is rather an elementary particle, for reference. Here's a good reference for subatomic elementary particles, where you can see some familiar names like electron and photon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon#/med…

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Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'The universe expands' in what? I thought everything was the universe, as meant by the term 'universal'.

Imagine you have a meter-stick. It has uniform graduation markings to show you centimeters and millimeters. Now imagine that it is getting longer. No matter how hard you look at it, the stick is still one meter long. That's what the markings on it say, anyway. It's actually getting longer at the same rate as all the other meter-sticks. That's the expansion of the universe. Now imagine you balanced two marbles on the…

> At least, that's how I understand it. I could be wrong.

General Relativity deals in spacetime, but it is often convenient to slice spacetime into spacelike volumes in which every point in the volume ("the spacelike hypersurface") is at the same timelike coordinate. One important consideration is that no timelike axis is any more preferred by nature than any other, and one can always find an observer who disagrees with any choice of splitting one happens to make. In particular, two inertial observers related by a Lorentz boost generally will not agree on what event (e.g. two bits of matter colliding) is at what time coordinate, and thus this type of 3+1 slicing will result in different spacelike hypersurfaces for each such observer.

The cosmological frame picks out a frame that a family of special observers can agree on: these observers agree that at the largest scales, the universe is homogeneous and isotropic, that they themselves are moving inertially, and can agree on a function relating a time coordinate to the average density of matter in a universe-sized spacelike hypersurface at that time coordinate. Each such observer is assigned a spacelike location which persists into the infinite future: the observers are all stationary at a constant set of three spatial coordinates. The centres of mass of practically all galaxy clusters are essentially this type of observer, so those remain at the same spatial coordinates at all times too.

We then take this set of coordinates and apply it to a universe described by a Robertson-Walker metric. Our universe approximately obeys the Robertson-Walker (R-W) metric outside of galaxy clusters; more on that in a moment. The R-W metric relies on a 3+1 slicing of a homogeneous and isotropic universe, and uses two coefficients r and k to determine respectively the radius and shape of each spacelike 3-hypersurface. If we knock out a spacelike dimension, we can think of an R-W universe as a stack of infinitesimally thin plates where each plate at time t is related to its infinitesimally earlier predecessor and infinitesimally later successor plate by a function giving its radius r. (It is perfectly reasonable to rotate the axes so that you stack the plates vertically from the floor upwards, where we substitute a height coordinate for the timelike coordinate).

In an expanding-with-a-cosmological-constant R-W universe, r shrinks smoothly towards the past and grows smoothly towards the future. The coefficient k determines whether the 2-d planes give globally Euclidean geometry (k=0), globally hyperbolic geometry or globally spherical geometry. Finally, if r >>> the Hubble volume, there may be no practical way of recovering k != 0 observationally, or in other words the local geometry of a R-W slice of a Hubble volume may be flat even if the global geometry is not.

On this R-W universe we apply the coordinate system above, but remember that our observers stay at fixed spacelike coordinates. We need to notice here that our coordinates do not determine distances by light-travel-time. That's fine, we can use arbitrary measures of distance in General Relativity, and can practically always find a consistent and useful transformation from a description of physics in one system of coordinates to another. We just have to be careful either to work only in generally covariant formulations, or to recognize that using some systems of coordinates entice one into the use of fictitious forces that disappear in other systems of coordinates. In this case, an observer at the centre of mass of our galaxy in spherical coordinates centred on her would naturally say that distant galaxy clusters on this spacelike hypersurface now will be at a larger radial coordinate in future spacelike hypersurfaces, in our cosmological coordinates she and the distant galaxies are all working in coordinates comoving with r, so their spatial distance is constant at all times.

The metric expansion of space is just that: r increases.

> The inter-galactic gravitation doesn't pull hard enough to overcome the expansion

This gets trickier. In the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker model we treat the sources of the matter tensor as a set of perfect fluids with some pressure and density, and the fluids dilute away with expanding Robertson-Walker universe. We ignore the local overdensities of matter ("galaxies" and "people" and so on) and at the largest scales, that's reasonable.

However inside galactic clusters and galaxies, in the standard model there is no expansion at all; gravity doesn't work against it, it just isn't there in the first place. From a technical perspective what we do is treat galaxies as approximate sources of a Schwarzschild metric up to some boundary enclosing the galaxy, and then we embed that into Robertson-Walker space. This is certainly not faultless, but it matches observation extremely well. What does not match observation extremely well is naive quintessence models where the metric expansion works within galaxies and is simply checked by the gravitational interactions of the matter within them, but acts as a cosmological constant outside galaxy clusters.

Likewise, comoving galaxy clusters are just drifting along inertially into the future; even under a different system of coordinates there are no extra forces working to separate them -- throwing away the 3+1 slicing with its preferred timelike axis, in the spacetime view galaxy clusters' timelike worldlines converge near the hot dense phase of the universe.

If you took your second paragraph's metre stick[1] and put it in space as a comoving observer well outside galaxy clusters, it would still be a metre long in the far future, whether measured locally or with a really really really good telescope. "Rulers" aren't expanding in the metric expansion; instead the cosmological coordinates on each spacelike hypervolume are adjusted, and in general coordinates while useful are not themselves physical while an actual metre stick is. Physical objects themselves do not change when we change coordinates; distant galaxies can have no idea that you're putting cosmological or spherical or cartesian or conformal coordinates on them, or calculating their movements against those coordinates.

I'm afraid I don't understand the point in your second paragraph.

> two galaxies that are not moving with respect to each other

They aren't moving against comoving coordinates. But if you choose other coordinates (e.g. spherical coordinates with the origin on the centre of one of the galaxies) they can move against those. We can do various transformations to convert the descriptions of the motions of these galaxies (and any fictitious forces and relating to coordinate motion, and other coordinate-dependent quantities) in one set of coordinates into another set of coordinates. The trick is finding a set of coordinates in which one can extract some intuitions about observables like the cosmological redshift, the dark night sky (cf. Olbers's paradox), or the details of the cosmic microwave background.

- --

[1] in principle, and with some care, you could line up a hundred 1 cm objects (e.g. ball bearings) and they would not separate from each other with the expansion of the universe (one has to be careful about other things that may cause them to move relative to one another, such as radionuclide decay within the objects, interactions with cosmic rays or other particles, and so on; but in standard General Relativity they should continue on their parallel timelike worldlines indefinitely).

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#109
Is it just me, or does anyone else get put off by hyperbolic scientific news coverage? Even if the result is interesting, the framing of one result as representative of all unknown normal matter makes me not want to bother reading the article, it's hard enough splitting out facts from bullshit when you have a decent grounding in a subject, it's even harder when your knowledge is almost nonexistent.

Re: First detection of the missing half of normal matter in our universe

#110
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I can tell, this basically also proves that large scale plasma exists between all bodies at any scale (planetary to systems to galaxies to clusters), and universe sized Birkeland currents exist; which is something cosmologists have been trying to prove/disprove for awhile. So, not only did they find some of the missing matter, they found some of the missing energy, too. This does, however, screw some of the…

> So, not only did they find some of the missing matter, they found some of the missing energy, too. Nope, this has nothing to do with dark energy. > This does, however, screw some of the more classical cosmologists. Not sure who you're referring to. These results are completely consistent with the standard model of cosmology.

> Not sure who you're referring to. These results are completely consistent with the standard model of cosmology.

Not if what is being detected is simply mass associated with filamentary currents of energy (with attendant magnetic fields) rather than particular particles.

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