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2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

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Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#31

Post by swivelmaster »

dragonwriter wrote: post #26

HN title is editorialized inappropriately from source (and focus shifted to absolute results rather than trends and discussion of the reasons behind the trends, which include questions about the validity of the tests.) The source title is “2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?”

Agree that the title should be edited.

Still, the question of "why are the schools in and around Silicon Valley doing so poorly?" is worth discussing. We [residents of supposedly the most innovative region on the planet] should be able to solve these problems, and yet we either are unable to or haven't tried very hard.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#32

Post by chroem- »

carlisle_ wrote: post #11
SQL2219 wrote: post #2

Get the computers out of the classroom.

This is the kind of comment that truly derails education. It's reactionary and doesn't have a real objective.

The wealthiest members of our society are on one hand sending their children to expensive private schools, specifically to avoid exposing them to computers in the classroom, while on the other hand lobbying for increased usage of computing in public education to support their businesses. This is a completely valid concern, and you are dismissing it without reason.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#33

Post by hkmurakami »

paxy wrote: post #17
SQL2219 wrote: post #2

Get the computers out of the classroom.

I can assure you there are no computers in classrooms where these failing students are from. You want to improve scores? Pay for school lunches. Pay for stationery and other basic supplies. Pay teachers more. It is ridiculous that costs of living and property values are skyrocketing across the state, but rather than more taxes going towards education there are budget cuts year after year.

This despite soaring CA tax revenues.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#34

Post by lloyddobbler »

paxy wrote: post #17
SQL2219 wrote: post #2

Get the computers out of the classroom.

I can assure you there are no computers in classrooms where these failing students are from. You want to improve scores? Pay for school lunches. Pay for stationery and other basic supplies. Pay teachers more. It is ridiculous that costs of living and property values are skyrocketing across the state, but rather than more taxes going towards education there are budget cuts year after year.

And yet...

https://calmatters.org/articles/how-much-has-californias-edu...

(Seems that per student spending is up almost 50% over the past 5 years.)

ETA - Not to mention that (with the exception of 1 year in the past 50 years), K-12 education receives a larger portion of the CA general fund than it ever has (currently 42% of the state budget goes to K-12 education - and rising). As state tax revenues go up (as another poster suggests), K-12 education spending goes up at an even faster rate.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/california...

I think the real world data paints a much different picture than you want to believe.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#35

Post by zanny »

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #12
navigator01 wrote: post #10

It has everything to do with home life and environment. No classroom within the expected margins of quality can overcome a negative home life that does not value education and encourage student achievement. Wealth and cultural/familial values are the major culprits.

Lack of wealth and lack of cultural/familial values more so than their overwhelming presence - though some might argue against the cultural part. When will American culture praise and reward academic acheivement in the way that some other cultures do?

When it stops being short-term profitable (in the forms of money or power) to systemically suppress intellectualism.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#36

Post by ransom1538 »

swivelmaster wrote: post #7

"California isn’t alone in its stagnating scores and in fact compares favorably with the 12 other states, plus the U.S. Virgin Islands, that administered the same tests last spring from the Smarter Balanced Assessment Consortium. Scores decreased in every state, and California’s decline was about the smallest, retired educational testing specialist Douglas McRae said." This is the most important sentence in the artic…

"This is the most important sentence in the article. It points to a problem in the test itself - California's students didn't just get magically stupider."

Yes. Having gone through public education in California the tests were treated as a total joke. They had no weight to your grades and there was zero incentive to do well. Often you wouldn't even get the results. In elementary school it was common for a teacher to say "When you have finished with this test, you can go to lunch" -- well kids would just start filling in bubbles. These tests were also accompanied by a sheet to see if you have tried drugs or sex all anonymous. My entire 3rd grade class did heroin.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#38

Post by swivelmaster »

lr4444lr wrote: post #30
swivelmaster wrote: post #7

"California isn’t alone in its stagnating scores and in fact compares favorably with the 12 other states, plus the U.S. Virgin Islands, that administered the same tests last spring from the Smarter Balanced Assessment Consortium. Scores decreased in every state, and California’s decline was about the smallest, retired educational testing specialist Douglas McRae said." This is the most important sentence in the artic…

So what's your recommended alternative metric? I don't doubt there is a good case to improve certain standardized tests, but that doesn't mean there isn't a valuable correlation even in a flawed one, nor that it's better to keep moving the goal posts into more subjective territory to explain away bad outcomes.

They're mentioned in the article. Graduation rates, college acceptance, stuff like that. Some of the countries with the best education systems in the world don't have these kinds of standardized tests.

Also, nobody's suggesting moving the goal posts to explain away bad outcomes. If every school suddenly loses three points on average from one year to another on what is supposed to be the same test, the only common variable there is the test itself. The test HAS to be different from year to year in order not to repeat questions, but it HAS to remain a comparable difficulty.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#39

Post by dragonwriter »

labster wrote: post #15
MichaelGG wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is English the native language for most of California?

Yes. Most of the hispanics whose families arrived in California before the English speakers arrived have long since become native English speakers. As with most second-generation or later immigrants. Though I have heard tales of Californians being native speakers of Lisp, this is probably just a rumor.

> Most of the hispanics whose families arrived in California before the English speakers arrived have long since become native English speakers.

That's true of most Californios, sure, but they are, by far, a minority of California Hispanics, who are mostly from families that immigrated much more recently.

Re: 2017 California school test scores: Why are they flatlining?

#40

Post by lr4444lr »

swivelmaster wrote: post #23
curiousgal wrote: post #3

Not being good at Math is not that big of deal but not being proficient at your own native language seems inexcusable.

I'm surprised I even have to explain this here but testing for basic language proficiency is not the only thing these types of tests are for. They test elements of writing, grammar, critical analysis, and vocabulary that students are still learning. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any easy way to get example questions - they're all locked behind a login that requires student id. Furthermore, this isn't entirely an ESL…

True, so is there a listening sub-component of the English Language Arts exam? How has that been trending?
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