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Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limitations change as API priorities shift. The platform has grown over time. Some inherent limitations are useful (to be a medium to creativity, to the user's control over their system overriding a developer's narcissism, to the idea that security and reliability are worth engineering for), and yes, unlikely to disappear entirely. I can't dispute the unpopularity of Windows Phone, but from what I hear the Windows St…

One of the key issues for me purchasing on the Windows Store is that my purchases my disappear at any moment. I have had half of my purchased apps disappear. And it is next to impossible to get a refund. Last week I noticed that my purchased music on Groove has disappeared ahead of the end of year termination of service.

This sort of happened to us at our work - a developer pulled an app from the store and we needed to install it on other machines internally, but there was no way to do so without going through the store. So it left us totally screwed after paying licensing fees.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#572
post #83

I was working in Microsoft about 5 years ago and Satya's not lying when they say they tried everything to incentivise app developers. It was a big focus of the company at the time. For keystone apps they tried to partner with developers doing most of the work for them. For more niche apps they ran promotions for students and independent developers giving away free phones etc. But nothing was enough to get over the pr…

> Most Windows phone owners I know (myself included) loved the design (hardware and software) I don't love the design, but I like it. Maybe some people believe the tile home screen is ugly, but they are more informative compare to icon based home screen. Yes, there are some bad designs in the Windows 10 Mobile, but all of them are fixable. And once those problems get fixed, it will be gorgeous. I feel very sad about…

> Maybe some people believe the tile home screen is ugly, but they are more informative compare to icon based home screen.

Information changes but a UI should be static, a UI that changes based on what is available is a recipe for a poor user experience. I have a hard enough time navigating rows of icons (as opposed to a list of app names), I don't need the icons changing randomly.

Aside from that, one of the missing features of tiles was interactivity, on android I've had an MP3 player widget on my home screen since I first got an HTC hero and playing music is a core feature for my phone. As flashy as tiles were they didn't have that level of functionality.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#573

I was working in Microsoft about 5 years ago and Satya's not lying when they say they tried everything to incentivise app developers. It was a big focus of the company at the time. For keystone apps they tried to partner with developers doing most of the work for them. For more niche apps they ran promotions for students and independent developers giving away free phones etc. But nothing was enough to get over the pr…

Im still on the platform. I was holding out, hoping for something. But I guess my current phone will be my last windows phone. Sad.

The platform will still be supported, but new hardware or features won't be coming, which is fine with me. If anything, I'll stick with MS for now and then switch to IOS sometime in the next few years.

You can still get the new HP Elite X3 and the Lumia 950 and 950XL on ebay for around $300.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#574
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stretch IMO. I was working there too at the time and the focus on apps was never as strong as it should have been. Yes, they paid out lots of money to get devs to build apps, but they never really dedicated the resources to building quality apps. The prime example was Facebook. This was an app built by Microsoft with FBs blessing, but it was always far behind in terms of features and quality. Developement o…

Man the more comments I read the more I begin to remember. There was ONE dev who was churning out VERY high quality apps to popular platforms. I think Snapchat or Instagram was what he got known for. Instead of MS embracing his work and helping it flourish, they let him get taken down by a C&D. LOTS of people got heated when that happened.

Rudy Hyn

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#575
I used a Nokia Lumia with Windows Phone 8. People say that the UI was better than Android or iOS, but I disagree.

The flat UI of Windows Phone was completely unintuitive. In the real world it's many times easy to distinguish objects you can interact with, by shape, texture or touch. With feature phones or remote controls you had hardware buttons.

With PC monitors and touch screens all controls are virtual, you get no 3D or touch feedback, so you have to rely on visual clues and visual patterns.

The flat UI of Windows Phone was pretty bad, providing no visual clues whatsoever, so you where left to touch text randomly on the screen, in the hope that some of it will click.

I see people here giving examples of technically illiterate wives and grandparents successfully using the Windows Phone, but guys, you're kind of missing the forest from the trees.

It's not that hard to learn how to make a phone call, or write an SMS, given that it's an operation that you're doing every couple of hours. You simply have to learn the path from home screen to whatever you want to do. Ask any child and he'll tell you that this is best done by trial and error and it is never a problem for repetitive operations, because we've got good memories.

The problems happens when you interact with an application UI that you've never seen before. And to be honest, even though I've been primarily an iOS user for the past 3 years, the best of the bunch in this regard is Android.

By comparison Android's material design provides intelligent clues about what can be pressed, or about what interaction just happened. And the design of Android applications is pretty flat, in the sense that available options are clearly laid out in front of you, no need to guess or to trigger hidden menus.

My favorite example was RunKeeper for iOS versus Android. The Android version had clear action buttons for starting a race, allowing me to easily select the type, whereas the iOS interface had the options hidden behind a menu that would appear when I tapped on the logo, which was a pretty dumb idea. I'm not even going to mention the dedicated Back button of Android, because people that don't have an Android just don't get it.

But back to Windows Phone, I don't know what you folks have been smoking, but it had terrible UI. And the apps where horrible. Its only saving grace where those Nokia Lumia phones that had a good quality/price ratio, but Android was already dominating the cheap smartphone market and a cheap Android might have been worse, but at least it had apps.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For more niche apps they ran promotions for students and independent developers giving away free phones etc. I remember they were giving Lumia 925's to computer engineering students here years ago if they made and uploaded an app. You can imagine the quality of the apps they were uploading. Most of them were slideshows or just a wall of text. That's not how you incentivise app developers, that's how you inflate your…

Back in the day the number of apps in the store was a major point in the mobile OS wars, though. Google and Nokia were both constantly compared to Apple and told how they need to improve. And yes, one response was to inflate numbers with random crap. Nokia created a developer tool to convert web pages to native apps -- basically just a webview wrapper with bundled web content. Ovi Store was half full of these "apps".

I remember a co-worker who would scan the latest IOS apps and then install them and demonstrate them at lunch for us. One day he was really happy with his latest download: A "softserve poop" app. The other one was a "virtual bong hit" app.

But yeah, lots of bloatware and apps that were worthless, but could hold your attention for a few minutes until you uninstalled it.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#577
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a semi-contradiction in your post that I think speaks to some of the issues MS had: "It started with windows phone 8 and the Metro UI. Bad Idea. The UI was too far away from Android/iPhone to be easily ported " "half-baked half-assed phone plattform that at no point had even a single feature that wasn't available better on iOS and Android" As someone who played around with WP7 when it first came out, I'd argu…

My wife had several Windows Phones in succession. Her use of a phone is very practical: contacts, texting, weather information. All of this was available at a glance in a much much better way than either Android or the iPhone have. It was a better business UI. It was harder to use if you had many apps. But seriously, having a phone open to the equivalent of Windows 3.1's Program Manager (which is what Android and iPh…

Android has supported home screen widgets and activity shortcuts since forever. Live tiles are hardly better, they're just a very Metro-y approach to the same feature.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the evolutionary path connecting WPF and "this WinRT stuff" is extremely clear and if you've built WPF you can build UWP. UWP .NET/XAML is great to work with if you know WPF, it's truly a successor to WPF in every way. (It'll be even better soon [as in next month] thanks to .NET Standard 2.0.)

The problem with UWP is that it requires Win10. This makes it a no-go for vast majority of developers targeting desktop Windows, given that Win7 is still dominant, and will be for a while to come.

Why MS didn't create a UWP emulator or wrapper for Windows 7 is beyond me. No Windows 7 compatibility is the main reason my company isn't bothering with UWP for our desktop software.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#579

I was working in Microsoft about 5 years ago and Satya's not lying when they say they tried everything to incentivise app developers. It was a big focus of the company at the time. For keystone apps they tried to partner with developers doing most of the work for them. For more niche apps they ran promotions for students and independent developers giving away free phones etc. But nothing was enough to get over the pr…

I wonder what would have happened if they competed on pure price. Like if they basically gave away 10m devices. That’s a small amount but it could have kickstarted something. App developers have to choose which platforms to support. The cost is nearly doubled if you go from just one to both dominant platforms. Adding a third would nearly triple it. It is not worth it if suddenly you can reach a whole lot of people. G…

They practically did. I bought a Windows phone for $30 a couple years ago.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#580

I was working in Microsoft about 5 years ago and Satya's not lying when they say they tried everything to incentivise app developers. It was a big focus of the company at the time. For keystone apps they tried to partner with developers doing most of the work for them. For more niche apps they ran promotions for students and independent developers giving away free phones etc. But nothing was enough to get over the pr…

I got a Lumia 820 that way. I loved that OS and I'm sad it never got the recognition it deserved. If nothing else, a serious competitor to the other two major OSs with such radically different design might inspire Apple and Google to something beyond the tired old icons on a grid.
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