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Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

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Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#91

Post by winston_smith »

justifier wrote: post #67
brianwawok wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops you from taking the first job you find, and then spending 6 months while working looking for better jobs? It hardly is THAT hard to get some competing offers. And if you can't be bothered, I guess you don't really want it anyway?

> What stops [someone].. Interviews scheduled during work hours, already working multiple jobs, burnout, lack of openings in your field > It hardly is THAT hard to get some competing offers. And if you can't be bothered, I guess you don't really want it anyway? This sentiment signals bias Competing offers? For what? Serving coffee? Washing dishes? DBA? CTO? If you offer anyone with a job more money my guess is 100% w…

> This sentiment signals bias

While your sentiments are presumably bias-free?

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#92

Post by cbanek »

mjevans wrote: post #88
TimPC wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about start-ups? If employers have access to your salary history in terms of a taxable compensation number but no access to information on what your options were this seems to suggest that employers will discriminate against start-up workers who traded off compensation, since their automated HR look-up would be unwilling to give someone the big raise related to not having equity and working in big corp.

I've never had stock options to list; wouldn't those also be assets you need to declare on taxes?

Only when you exercise the options.

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#93

Post by winston_smith »

nowarninglabel wrote: post #70
mjevans wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's time to just make tax returns (and therefore salaries) part of the public record. I think that transparency could make for a more fair process and also level negotiation since the compensation would then be about the role and how good someone is actually rated, rather than about how much they happened to have been paid in the past or how good they are about lying about it.

It'd be great to read the arguments against making them public. There's good reasons why we should make them public available here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/yourtaxes/14discl... Secrecy is good in many places, but I can't think of why it is good for tax returns, asides from perhaps allowing criminals to more easily target those with high incomes?

Public tax returns would make it much easier for people to put pressure on others working toward financial independence.

In some poor communities, there's a strong ethic of sharing good fortune. That's good in many ways, but also makes it hard to climb out of poverty. More generally, lots of people have unbounded spending habits, and some will put a lot of pressure on friends/family if they find out they have any savings.

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#94

Post by cwkoss »

paulddraper wrote: post #76
nowarninglabel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be great to read the arguments against making them public. There's good reasons why we should make them public available here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/yourtaxes/14discl... Secrecy is good in many places, but I can't think of why it is good for tax returns, asides from perhaps allowing criminals to more easily target those with high incomes?

Same reason why I have an opaque fence instead of a transparent one. I prefer for every random passerby to know full details of everything I do.

I think you missed a negation

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#95

Post by Spooky23 »

nowarninglabel wrote: post #70
mjevans wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's time to just make tax returns (and therefore salaries) part of the public record. I think that transparency could make for a more fair process and also level negotiation since the compensation would then be about the role and how good someone is actually rated, rather than about how much they happened to have been paid in the past or how good they are about lying about it.

It'd be great to read the arguments against making them public. There's good reasons why we should make them public available here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/yourtaxes/14discl... Secrecy is good in many places, but I can't think of why it is good for tax returns, asides from perhaps allowing criminals to more easily target those with high incomes?

I've worked in the public sector, where salaries and benefits are public record. It's all on the website of several different media organizations. I can think of no harm that has resulted.

The downside in the private sector is that employees will find out how much they are getting screwed around with. Double downside when those employees figure out why.

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#96

Post by Spooky23 »

mikestew wrote: post #39
codewritinfool wrote: post #2

Why are these people still in business?

"Still in business"? Hell, not only that, their stock continues to go up after bouncing off what appears to be the bottom. Which makes me torn, because despite wanting very much to see Equifax and those of their ilk go out of business, I have a bunch of call options I bought when it looked like low 90s was about as low as they were going to go. I still hold those options (though they're set to expire in about two wee…

It's just a PR exercise to fix.

Nobody cares about Equifax. What's going to happen? You have a republican congress that won't regulate them away, the banks need them, and the actual thieves are criminals or nation states who'll get tagged with the actual crimes that get committed later.

They will wait until they get their fine, take the media hit, and then rename the company after Trump kicks a kitten or something and overtakes the news cycle.

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#97

Post by Spooky23 »

burkaman wrote: post #4

Anyone have any idea if Experian and Transunion have something similar?

There are lots of companies in this space. If the big ones don't, there is a smaller, creepier one or a subsidiary that does.

As an example, One firm managed to figure out the correct expected birthdate of our child. The only record of this child are the medical and prescription records of the near fatal miscarriage that my wife was hospitalized for at 9 weeks.

If they can get that, one or more somebodies is paying off your company's payroll processor for your salary data.

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#98

Post by downer72 »

shostack wrote: post #75
Retric wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Past pay is not directly a significant issue. It's just a question of getting competing offers. The real issue is some people suck at negotiation and past salaries will tell companies that.

Any suggestions on how to bypass the question of past/expected comp then?

In some cases, it is explicitly stated by the prospective employer that any refusal of requested information (or providing false information) will be met with a rejection letter.

I have been on interviews where this is part of a boiler plate release/waiver for a background check, prior to receiving an offer letter, and on the same form, you are made to list prior employers, and fill in the salary box for each.

And if you don't like it, good luck taking legal action, right? Whether something is legal or illegal, most people lack the resources to even entertain the idea of challenging legality.

The only path that seems to effectively buffer this practice is working with recruiting agencies, which do a better job of negotiating, but do still collect this information. And although recruiters might only be capable of telling you whether you have real leverage for your salary demands, whether the recruiter is being paid by you or the employer is a clue as to who they're working for.

Hint: if you aren't paying them out of pocket, recruiters aren't actually working for you, even if they seem really pleasant.

Re: Equifax Breach Fallout: Your Salary History

#100

Post by zdragnar »

downer72 wrote: post #98
shostack wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any suggestions on how to bypass the question of past/expected comp then?

In some cases, it is explicitly stated by the prospective employer that any refusal of requested information (or providing false information) will be met with a rejection letter. I have been on interviews where this is part of a boiler plate release/waiver for a background check, prior to receiving an offer letter, and on the same form, you are made to list prior employers, and fill in the salary box for each. And if…

I wouldn't paint so broad a brush with your "only path" argument; I've never listed my salaries, and have always negotiated my own (even when connected to jobs via a recruiter).

Then again, I'm fortunate to have highly sought skills and years of experience, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that's the only way to get fair pay.

Edit: I should point out that I'm not making anything to brag about by silicon valley standards, but I also live somewhere with much, much lower cost of living and salaries in general, and make the high end of what's common out here.

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