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Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

nytimes.com

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Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#41

Post by mkempe »

acabal wrote: post #10

It's so crazy to me that everyone in vulnerable places--Tokyo and Houston in the article for example--are happy to spend hundreds of millions, even billions, to put a bandaid on their local climate change problems. It seems like they all acknowledge the reality and danger of climate change and are willing to spend money on it. In TFA Houston wants $400 million to build a reservoir. They seem to acknowledge that thing…

Building such infrastructure does properly address specific risks of natural disasters and climate change.

One should not assume that climate changes have been, are, nor will be, exclusively caused by human action; one should not think that there is a single, global path of action that will somehow set all future climates to some ideal version. More concretely, consider that we happen to live in an interglacial period. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interglacial

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#42

Post by wavefunction »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #26
acabal wrote: post #10

It's so crazy to me that everyone in vulnerable places--Tokyo and Houston in the article for example--are happy to spend hundreds of millions, even billions, to put a bandaid on their local climate change problems. It seems like they all acknowledge the reality and danger of climate change and are willing to spend money on it. In TFA Houston wants $400 million to build a reservoir. They seem to acknowledge that thing…

Everyone's OK with spending money and manpower on huge public works projects, but they're not OK with addressing habits and addictions that make the projects necessary in the first place. Careful how you throw around “they” there buddy. We Houstonians are 7 million diverse people doing the best we can with what we have. Thanks for your outrage on our behalf. Instead of grand standing and virtue signaling perhaps you…

Y'all could build a robust mass-transit system and get those cars off of the road for a start.

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#43

Post by btown »

trophycase wrote: post #40
nostrademons wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the problem is self-limiting. If global warming reduces the carrying capacity of the environment, people will die. Dead people don't use resources; their bodies are returned to the environment by decomposers, where they will provide fertilizer for trees and other plants, which will grow even more abundantly because of the enhanced CO2 levels. Eventually the earth reaches a new equilibrium at a somewhat higher te…

It's not true that a stable equilibrium is always reached. It's also possible that irreversible changes are set into motion which shift the equilibrium so far away from livability that humans cannot survive.

See, for instance, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#44

Post by dageshi »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #8

I may not understand the scope of this project, but when I read the $2 billion, my thought was "wow that's cheap!" Consider the Big Dig or the current Seattle tunnel, at $14B+ and $3B+ respectively.

That's what I thought as well, $2 billion doesn't seem like that much for that kind of project?

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#45

Post by jacobolus »

nostrademons wrote: post #34
blondie9x wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adaptation without mitigation will not be effective as the impacts worsen. Uncapped emissions and business as usual scenarios will cause outcomes that we will not be able to build ourselves out of. We must reduce emissions and push for sustainable infrastructure and solutions, now. We must adapt and we must also mitigate. Only through the combination of both efforts and through our determination and willingness to le…

Nah, the problem is self-limiting. If global warming reduces the carrying capacity of the environment, people will die. Dead people don't use resources; their bodies are returned to the environment by decomposers, where they will provide fertilizer for trees and other plants, which will grow even more abundantly because of the enhanced CO2 levels. Eventually the earth reaches a new equilibrium at a somewhat higher te…

It seems that we could be headed for a mass extinction, whether or not humans manage to survive thousands of years longer.

We aren’t going to entirely destroy life on the planet, which will eventually recover great diversity (speciation to fill new ecological niches in some new stable equilibrium) within a few million years after we’re gone, but it will look significantly different than what we are familiar with.

That’s not much consolation to people who feel attached to what human societies and cultures we have all spent a lot of effort developing.

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#46

Post by [deleted] »

nostrademons wrote: post #34
blondie9x wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adaptation without mitigation will not be effective as the impacts worsen. Uncapped emissions and business as usual scenarios will cause outcomes that we will not be able to build ourselves out of. We must reduce emissions and push for sustainable infrastructure and solutions, now. We must adapt and we must also mitigate. Only through the combination of both efforts and through our determination and willingness to le…

Nah, the problem is self-limiting. If global warming reduces the carrying capacity of the environment, people will die. Dead people don't use resources; their bodies are returned to the environment by decomposers, where they will provide fertilizer for trees and other plants, which will grow even more abundantly because of the enhanced CO2 levels. Eventually the earth reaches a new equilibrium at a somewhat higher te…

[deleted]

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#47

Post by jjawssd »

acabal wrote: post #10

It's so crazy to me that everyone in vulnerable places--Tokyo and Houston in the article for example--are happy to spend hundreds of millions, even billions, to put a bandaid on their local climate change problems. It seems like they all acknowledge the reality and danger of climate change and are willing to spend money on it. In TFA Houston wants $400 million to build a reservoir. They seem to acknowledge that thing…

> In TFA Houston wants $400 million to build a reservoir. They seem to acknowledge that things are only going to get worse for them as the years go on. And yet everyone there still drives everywhere spewing carbon into their own air with every trip, public transit is in a poor state, and oil exploitation continues apace. Everyone's OK with spending money and manpower on huge public works projects, but they're not OK with addressing habits and addictions that make the projects necessary in the first place.

It sucks to have to drive for miles to get anywhere in Houston. Public transportation is downright dangerous in Houston where the threat of violent crime is very high. It is not practical to arrive at work sweaty from walking or bicycling. Just being outside on a motorcycle moving at moderate speed causes intense perspiration within 10 minutes. Air conditioning is necessary. There is no alternative to the gasoline powered automobile because the city is planned so poorly. So you deal with it the only way you can by taking personal responsibility to ensure your own safety and comfort. Fundamentally the problem may be poor planning or that the government is dysfunctional and taxpayer money is squandered.

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#48

Post by ryanmarsh »

wavefunction wrote: post #42
ryanmarsh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone's OK with spending money and manpower on huge public works projects, but they're not OK with addressing habits and addictions that make the projects necessary in the first place. Careful how you throw around “they” there buddy. We Houstonians are 7 million diverse people doing the best we can with what we have. Thanks for your outrage on our behalf. Instead of grand standing and virtue signaling perhaps you…

Y'all could build a robust mass-transit system and get those cars off of the road for a start.

What do you think we’ve been trying to do? Read the Houston Chronicle or Houston Press.

Re: Tokyo Is Preparing for Floods ‘Beyond Anything We’ve Seen’

#49

Post by brador »

acabal wrote: post #10

It's so crazy to me that everyone in vulnerable places--Tokyo and Houston in the article for example--are happy to spend hundreds of millions, even billions, to put a bandaid on their local climate change problems. It seems like they all acknowledge the reality and danger of climate change and are willing to spend money on it. In TFA Houston wants $400 million to build a reservoir. They seem to acknowledge that thing…

Rational self-interested bots engineered to maximise shareholder value.
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