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Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

bbc.co.uk

481–490 of 724 posts

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You couldn't just port from WPF to Silverlight. They took away tons of features. WinRT was even worse. No idea about UWP but I don't care anymore.

That's why I mentioned semver. APIs change all the time, backwards compatibility gets broken. Yes, conversions weren't always straight forward, but often were possible , and there was an evolutionary arc to it all, and a migration story to follow, even when sometimes that story was a bit rougher than anyone wanted.

There was no migration story. Usually an API gets more features but in this case they took away a lot of critical stuff. A lot of us write applications that need the full power of the OS and not just a small arbitrarily chosen subset.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#482
This is karma for the way they started their 'Windows Smartphone' project, aka 'Stinger' (their internal name). They partnered with UK-based Sendo, who should have been their go-to-market partner, until Microsoft nicked all the code and gave it to HTC. They, in turn, partnered with Orange to bring out the SPV. How do we know it was Sendo's code? becuase it had Sendo's bugs - the eact version could be determined by which bugs it had and didn't have.

When Microsoft starts out like this, they deserve every little failurethey get!

Refs: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/06/microsofts_masterpla... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_SPV

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#483
post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll file that next to the windows 7 release party: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=1cX4t5-YpHQ

Oh god, I forgot all about this. How was this only 8 years ago? I love how, at 0:38, you can see the guy on the left covering up a laugh.

"In a lot of ways youre just throwing a party with WINDOWS 7 as an honored guest"

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#484
So that's Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft that failed with phones.

I think it's safe to say we will never see a viable third option in mobile.

Might as well start thinking of the next great paradigm shift but even there it's hard to see anyone out maneuvering Apple and Google.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#485
I think a big question now is will Microsoft build a smartphone product on top of Android? This will help them capture existing app ecosystem and enable them to provide "the best of Microsoft" for enterprise mobile customers. The cloud market is so important and it just seems strategically weak to not have a phone platform to connect with that. Google Cloud has Google Play Services and there is lots of opportunity there.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that an exaggeration or do you mean that literally?

I mean that literally. As an example see this [0] discussion from a few days ago. Not involving microsoft, but the guy literally gave up millions just because of morals. The principal is the same. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15372048

My surprise wasn't at the fact that someone would give up money due to morals; my surprise was at the fact that helping Microsoft (or putting ads in software, in VLC's case) would be considered a moral wrong. That sounds like quite an exaggeration to me. Microsoft has done a lot of good things too, and so have ads. The fact that they have negative aspects doesn't mean anything less than 90 degrees away from their direction is a moral wrong.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#487
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked 3 years as a windows phone dev and i'm sorry to say but Microsofts efforts were ... almost insultingly bad. It started with windows phone 8 and the Metro UI. Bad Idea. The UI was too far away from Android/iPhone to be easily ported and adding corporate design to it was hard as it was too different. Silverlight and XAML was okay for the time. Then came windows 8.1 and windows desktop 8 which was universally h…

The thing about the MS platforms that has always been an issue is that they change the developer APIs around all the time. Every year they come out with the latest greatest way to access a database or whatever and it really isn't that much better than what they had last year, but it still requires a rewrite.

My pet theory is that this is because the dev tools department at Microsoft is not a pure cost centre with the sole task of improving the platform, they have Visual Studio licenses to sell. If there is any truth in that, we should see a slow decline in "API of the year" as non-subscription licenses (where customers are prone to skip an update when it does not have enough "revolutionary must-haves") are slowly phased out.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#488
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked 3 years as a windows phone dev and i'm sorry to say but Microsofts efforts were ... almost insultingly bad. It started with windows phone 8 and the Metro UI. Bad Idea. The UI was too far away from Android/iPhone to be easily ported and adding corporate design to it was hard as it was too different. Silverlight and XAML was okay for the time. Then came windows 8.1 and windows desktop 8 which was universally h…

> Then came windows 8.1 and windows desktop 8 which was universally hated. The whole fullscreen apps debacle was just horrible and all the unnecessary restrictions on store apps for desktop made no one ever consider porting their desktop app to a store app. The whole phone and desktop app in one was a joke aswell since it was (and still is!) horrible implemented. Did I mention they broke compatibility from 8.1 to pho…

Windows 8 "metro" UI caused an uproar for many reasons, some of the biggest ones being:

- the start menu covered the whole screen

- applications could only run full screen, even the simplest ones. You literally couldn't have 2 applications on the screen at the same time.

- it was hard to close applications

- it was very difficult to find the shutdown/reset/etc options

- the metro versions of "default" apps looked bad and were vastly inferior to the "old" versions. A lot of system settings ones had this problem, too (not relevant to the average user, but I use a VPN that is impossible to set up to work in the simple "metro" VPN app, but if you find and start the old win7 app which still exists, you can set it up correctly and you can even connect to it from the "metro" VPN app after that)

- a lot of computer games that worked on 7 didn't work on 8 (likely unrelated to metro UI but still a reason for many people not to update)

Some problems were fixed in Windows 8.1. In Windows 10, most of these things are fine (although Win10 gets hate because of its update system and because it installs unwanted apps, but it seems to have much more acceptance overall).

Windows 8 basically offered nothing to the average user except annoyance so people didn't want to update. It had a very nice improvement for developers in the form of Hyper-V, which is the only reason I upgraded, and only after 8.1 was released.

The root problem with Windows 8 UI was that it was clearly not designed with the intention of being a better desktop UI. It was designed with the intention of forcing users to get used to the Windows Phone-style UI on their desktop computer, in hopes that they will then buy Windows Phones out of familiarity. Basically desktop Windows had to "take one for the team". We can see here how much that helped WP.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#489
post #484

So that's Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft that failed with phones. I think it's safe to say we will never see a viable third option in mobile. Might as well start thinking of the next great paradigm shift but even there it's hard to see anyone out maneuvering Apple and Google.

Both Amazon's and Facebook's attempts were modifications atop Android. You could throw Samsung's skinned Android into the same comparison and call it a success.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The given problem is not in the UX standpoint, it's a developers' problem. As a developer of WinAPI app, I can just click on .EXE file. I can use CreateProcess to run it. I can use command shell to run it, right? And so on. I'm free. The UWP is a different story: as a developer, I can do exactly nothing. I cannot run .EXE. I cannot run .APPX. I cannot run from command shell. I cannot distribute .EXE. I cannot distrib…

> I cannot distribute .APPX You can distribute .APPX. You can't distribute an unsigned .APPX and guarantee users can use it, but you haven't been able to do that with .EXE in years either. > I cannot run .APPX. Double clicking an .APPX installs it. > I cannot run .EXE. You can include Win32 .EXEs in .APPX packages now. There's a bunch of tools to support just that scenario called the "Desktop Bridge". > I cannot run…

Here is a sample scenario that blocks me from doing certain development actions:

--- Steps to Reproduce --- 1. Launch VS 2017 2. Create new UWP blank app 3. Build it 4. Go to project's bin\Debug folder in File Explorer. 5. Find app's .EXE file and double-click it

--- Actual Results --- .EXE file cannot be launched. Error: "This application can only run in the context of an app container."

--- Expected Results --- .EXE file is launched. Main app window appears and it works as usual

>Double clicking an .APPX installs it.

Just checked that. Nope, this is what I get for my freshly compiled app when I click on corresponding .APPX file: "[Window Title] How do you want to open this file? [Content] Look for an app in the Store [OK]"

Any solution to this? These files should be consumable at the OS level.

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