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New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

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Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#51

Post by chopsueyar »

fmora wrote: post #13

The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel. The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed. The fact that there is always new p…

"Notice that the person doing this illegal business is the only one benefiting from it."

The landlord/property owner is still paying property taxes, and their utility bills.

Also, as a previous commenter mentioned (jim_h)...

"A tourist who stays at a hotel ($100/night) might only have budgeted $50/day to spend outside of hotel costs."

"A cheap tourist could budget $100/day, stay at a temp place and still get more out of NYC than someone who budgeted $150/day and stayed at a hotel."

But, most importantly, mrtron says...

"I would agree - the money spent on hotels probably doesn't stay as local as money spent on food and entertainment."

Also, you mentioned "what is supposed to be a residential area" - but most of NYC seems to be mixed-use zoning, where you have a commercial entity attached to a multi-family residence, or even have commercial entities at the base of the building.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#52

Post by angstrom »

jim_h wrote: post #5

That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on a budget. I've met some very interesting and friendly people in 'short-term apartments'. Mostly foreign students/travelers on vacation, people moving to NYC for work and using it as temporary housing until they find a real place, or just regular Americans visiting another city on a budget. They make it seem like these places are unclean or un…

On the flip side, if these rooms get rented out it becomes more affordable to those of us that actually live here. There's still hostels for those who want to go the cheap route and meet plenty of foreign travelers.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#53

Post by chopsueyar »

_delirium wrote: post #9
vox wrote: post #2

I think this law cuts into our freedom as house/apartment owners. I don't think the government should have the right to dictate our lives at such a low-level.

I can't answer the philosophical/ethical question, but on the legal side, if this is considered a kind of "zoning" (prohibiting commercial use of residentially-zoned property), it's long established that that's a permitted kind of regulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_v._Ambler

You would also need a permit for your home-based startup, since you are using a portion of your residential space for business purposes.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#55

Post by Retric »

gruseom wrote: post #8

Yet another illustration of how those with political power are not subject to the discipline of the market.

Hotels pay a lot of taxes in support of local attractions, parks, museums, and other such facilities. It seems reasonable to me that if your rending your place in less than 1 month increments you should be regulated as a hotel and pay those taxes.

Now add to that the fact there are external costs to short term rentals (random renters through more wild party's) and banning these seems reasonable to me.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#56

Post by Retric »

ccamrobertson wrote: post #18
rdtsc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's one way to make NYC even less affordable and friendly to tourists on a budget. But that is a valid concern I suppose -- does NYC benefit from tourists on a budget? If it doesn't then it might make sense to keep them out so tourists "not on a budget" can have more space, visit more often, and consequently spend more money. I can see how tourists on a budget would not be welcome in many cities. Some places rel…

does NYC benefit from tourists on a budget Any tourists will bring tax revenues into the city by eating at restaurants, visiting museums and events and generally purchasing goods and services. "not on a budget" can have more space, visit more often, and consequently spend more money. If any place in the world operated purely under this assumption, then you would never have urban centers like New York to begin with. C…

Museums and other public services are subsidized with taxes on on hotels. It could easily be a net loss for the city for people to use short term housing vs fewer people using hotels.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#57

Post by ovidiu »

zupatol wrote: post #47
gruseom wrote: post #8

Yet another illustration of how those with political power are not subject to the discipline of the market.

The market is created by laws, laws are created by politicians, politicians are elected. That's how a democracy should work, anyway. City planning is something complicated where I'm not so sure a pure market-driven solution would be optimal. Markets only allocate resources well when there are no externalities. They do nothing towards a fair distribution of wealth. A good example of poor city planning caused by the ma…

Sure, this is how democracy always worked. I don't know about you but I hate it when a politician forces me to live, eat and work the way he wants, not the way I want.

I don't believe your example is a good one, because the housing bubble was not caused by the market. It was caused by irrational expansion of credit. Of course the market is the expression of what people want, but those "wants" are heavily distorted or encouraged by monetary policy. There is no market in the money making business (it's a government controlled monopoly).

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#58

Post by cabalamat »

Retric wrote: post #55
gruseom wrote: post #8

Yet another illustration of how those with political power are not subject to the discipline of the market.

Hotels pay a lot of taxes in support of local attractions, parks, museums, and other such facilities. It seems reasonable to me that if your rending your place in less than 1 month increments you should be regulated as a hotel and pay those taxes. Now add to that the fact there are external costs to short term rentals (random renters through more wild party's) and banning these seems reasonable to me.

> random renters thr[ow] more wild part[ie]s

If people are causing noise disturbance to others. it's reasonable that there be legislation that covers that specific case, regardless of how long the people are staying in the apartment. Because otherwise you're penalising all short term letters for the misdeeds of a few, which is wrong.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#59

Post by MikeMacMan »

shykes wrote: post #17
fmora wrote: post #13

The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel. The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed. The fact that there is always new p…

You are missing one important point: most people affected by this ban are individuals, renting out one room at a time, maybe two. I have a hard time believing this generates any kind of noticeable "coming and going". In fact, tolerating the rental of a single room per household strikes me as a good way of separating the wheat from the chaff. Ironically, even Cuba has such an exception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca…

Assemblyman Richard Gottfried states in this interview that the law is designed to eliminate 'illegal hotels', where real estate companies or building owners rent out many units in a building. He says that they have never gone after people renting out their rooms, and doesn't expect that to change: http://beta.wnyc.org/shows/bl/2010/jul/08/illegal-hotel-crac...

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#60

Post by cromulent »

w00pla wrote: post #49
zupatol wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is created by laws, laws are created by politicians, politicians are elected. That's how a democracy should work, anyway. City planning is something complicated where I'm not so sure a pure market-driven solution would be optimal. Markets only allocate resources well when there are no externalities. They do nothing towards a fair distribution of wealth. A good example of poor city planning caused by the ma…

> They do nothing towards a fair distribution of wealth. What is the "fair distribution of wealth"? I personally believe that you are only entitled to the wealth you yourself created (or which someone voluntary gave you). Isn't that a fair distribution of wealth? Or what other metrics do you use?

One example might be parks. Do you feel entitled to use Central Park, even though you didn't create it?

Whoever planned that part of NYC did a pretty good job of fair distribution, I think. Some for everyone to enjoy, some taxes taken for upkeep, everyone's a winner.

I don't think the market would do a good job of allocating that resource.

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