Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#171

Post by scott_s » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #132

csydas wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree especially in the case of social networks. First movers in such spaces have incredible advantages and one of them is a lock-in effect. Countless follow-up social sites have come and gone that either had feature parity or better offerings than Facebook, but failed to get a foothold because of the fact that everyone already had Facebook. Why switch when everyone can already talk and plan? SV really…

>I strongly disagree especially in the case of social networks. First movers in such spaces have incredible advantages and one of them is a lock-in effect. Countless follow-up social sites have come and gone that either had feature parity or better offerings than Facebook, but failed to get a foothold because of the fact that everyone already had Facebook. Why switch when everyone can already talk and plan? Sure, and…

I don't like the term "first mover", because in practice, I think it's rare for the actual first to win. Friendster was the first friend-oriented online social network. They were the first mover, but the site performed terribly. MySpace and Facebook beat Friendster because they were better at doing what people wanted.

There are other examples. The iPhone was not the first smart phone, but it was better than all of the others when it came out. It dominated for a while, and even though it's no longer the dominant smart phone (I believe there are more Android phones), all smart phones are derivatives of that first iPhone. Google beat Yahoo and AltaVista. Historically, I think it's usually second-movers that win, because they tend to benefit from the first-movers defining the problem, and one of the second-movers solves it better.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#172

Post by debt » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

d_burfoot wrote: post #141

Here's another view of the problem: the "average Joe" American is starting to hate all the centralized and monolithic institutions in the country, because he sees them as being corrupt, privileged, and primarily concerned with cementing their own power. It used to be that SV was a rebel and outsider going against Washington and Wall Street, but increasingly SV is just another pillar of the power structure.

I think it'd be an interesting startup idea to decentralized all the monolithic services. Create an Uber for City X(ie Uber for London, Uber for Chicago, etc.). Allow the municipalities to run those services. And do the same for Airbnb, Yelp, Google, Facebook etc.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#173

Post by sidlls » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #71

aaron-lebo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's false loyalty. People put up with Facebook, Apple, Google, etc with their fake "we care about you" marketing (could apps stop literally telling me this? it's weird), overpriced, and walled garden megalomania because they are addicted and their other options are mediocre walled gardens (look around). People aren't stupid, they can sense when they are being used and those companies have treated their customers lik…

It’s not loyalty at all, it’s just people using the best product available to them. If someone creates something better than Facebook people will use that thing and won’t feel any remorse in switching. Until that happens, people will continue to use Facebook, because despite what Hacker News thinks, Facebook adds a huge amount of value to peoples’ lives.

Merely creating something better than Facebook is barely even the ante. Much more than that is required to convince somebody to use Facebook (Google, etc.). Marketing, some appreciable fraction of their userbase also using the would-be competitor, etc. is the absolute minimum requirement to play their game.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#174

Post by Terr_ » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #121

nsxwolf wrote: post #105

Middle America is not too keen on your "basic income" solution to all the problems you are creating. It brings to mind a future of living in a 300 square foot government apartment in some hideous Brutalist concrete block of a building, eating our daily Amazon rations, knowing that's just how life is going to be, forever, no need to have dreams anymore. There will be torches and pitchforks coming for you.

I notice that some of the biggest proponent of basic income are work-aholics, not middle america that’s supposedly at the greatest risk of the incoming AI apocalypse. It’s the same people who eat soylent milkshakes because they don’t have any desire or time to cook for themselves. It’s no wonder they’d love it if the government came by and took away one more obstacle that keeps them from burying their heads in their…

Perhaps because the first group doesn't have as much time/effort sunk into learning to use the current social safety patchwork, so changes to it are less scary.

Also, they don't need to keep up any self-denial that well-paying jobs will magically return for coal-mining or buggy-whip manufacture.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#175

Post by ianai » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

wtflmaohnisdumb wrote: post #89

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We're full. Stay in SV please /s There's good companies and bad companies, just like everywhere else.

I was interested if the parent moved and maintained his (adjusted) total comp and was happy with his decision, or was happy despite a loss in total comp. Obviously there are good companies and bad companies everywhere. :) (FWIW I'm not in SV)

He’s probably gained much in COL. most of the SW is cheaper than SV by a large percentage.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#176

Post by lucozade » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #94

Spivak wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This view is ridiculously out of touch with reality. What you're describing is borderline cartoonish levels of evil. You make it sound like white males get together with conferences to discuss new ways of oppressing people. The theory that explains this phenomenon needs to address how things still go wrong even when nobody has any dislike or prejudice.

> You make it sound like white males get together with conferences to discuss new ways of oppressing people. Ahem. https://www.thestranger.com/news/2017/10/04/25451102/we-snuc... As usual: it's worse than you think.

> Of the 70 to 80 people in the lodge

I don't think that's quite a quorum of white males. Maybe it clashed with "Up with the Patriarchy" bowling night?

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#177

Post by aylmao » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

have_faith wrote: post #152

Silicon Valley isn't a brand. People don't fall out of love with London or New York when some stupid products fail there.

Funny how one of your examples is New York, probably one of the world's strongest city brands, especially after the whole "Big Apple", and "I heart NY" campaigns targeted at promoting tourism.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#178

Post by snerbles » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

api wrote: post #170

mschuster91 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well people can think of something like TNG but the (alt-)right will instantly crapstorm you for being a communist. Just look at how they're opposing healthcare for all, a society like TNG would be the ultimate enemy for them.

The alt-right is the logical endpoint. It kind of combines all the worst ideas from liberalism over the past 50 years (postmodernism, identity politics) with all the worst ideas from conservatism (nationalism, racism, biological determinism) in the previous century. I remember years ago having a discussion with a friend about "what's the worst ideology you can possibly imagine" and it kind of resembles what I came up…

The fictional history of Star Trek did have a global nuclear war in the 21st century.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#179

Post by dsacco » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

jes5199 wrote: post #100

jrs95 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some of the people that do have a problem with SV or tech in general also just have a problem with people they perceive as having lower social status succeeding. It's not anti-intellectualism exactly, but it sort of parallels it in my opinion.

people in SV aren’t “suceeding” - they’re making twice as much money as everyone else in exchange for creating systems of surveillance. I’m not surprised people are salty about it.

> they’re making twice as much money as everyone else

...if that's not your definition of "succeeding", then okay fine, but be aware that this is a major component of most peoples' definitions, so yours will be the unconventional one in the conversation (and therefore you should probably justify it to be persuasive).

> in exchange for creating systems of surveillance

If you're talking about data mining and advertising, that's hardly a neutral way to refer to it. Reasonable people can disagree that these are "systems of surveillance" because they do not consider surveillance inclusive to non-military/intelligence/law enforcement activity.

Furthermore, plenty of people in Silicon Valley and tech in general do not work on advertising products. Not even everyone in companies like Google or Facebook works on advertising products.

Re: Dear Silicon Valley: America’s fallen out of love with you

#180

Post by davesque » Mon, Oct 09, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #105

Middle America is not too keen on your "basic income" solution to all the problems you are creating. It brings to mind a future of living in a 300 square foot government apartment in some hideous Brutalist concrete block of a building, eating our daily Amazon rations, knowing that's just how life is going to be, forever, no need to have dreams anymore. There will be torches and pitchforks coming for you.

Were you responding to the right comment? The point you're making is not relevant to the OP.