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New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

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Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#41
Is the wording of the legislation specifically against "vacation" short-lets? As in... does it block business related short-lets?

In which case, what's to stop AirBNB from adding a "trip purpose" selector to their site which would default to "business" when a property in NYC is selected.

And if it does stop business short-lets, why isn't that industry up in arms about this?

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#42
post #12

Economics: The study of the distribution of scarce resources with alternative uses. It would be great if more people knew that.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."

Love it. I've been reading a bunch of Thomas Sowell recently. That seems like it could be straight out of "A Conflict of Visions."

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#43
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing one important point: most people affected by this ban are individuals, renting out one room at a time, maybe two. I have a hard time believing this generates any kind of noticeable "coming and going". In fact, tolerating the rental of a single room per household strikes me as a good way of separating the wheat from the chaff. Ironically, even Cuba has such an exception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca…

I also see this as a problem though. Most likely the person doing this is not the owner of the apartment. I wonder how the original landlords feel about this. Maybe they just don't care, who knows. Seems wrong to be using their apartment for this when they never agreed to it.

Up-voted to offset whoever down-voted you to zero -- I don't necessarily agree with your comment but it's certainly not offensive in any way.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#44
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing one important point: most people affected by this ban are individuals, renting out one room at a time, maybe two. I have a hard time believing this generates any kind of noticeable "coming and going". In fact, tolerating the rental of a single room per household strikes me as a good way of separating the wheat from the chaff. Ironically, even Cuba has such an exception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca…

I also see this as a problem though. Most likely the person doing this is not the owner of the apartment. I wonder how the original landlords feel about this. Maybe they just don't care, who knows. Seems wrong to be using their apartment for this when they never agreed to it.

I would consider the landlord's involvement in this decision to be an "abstraction violation." When I lease the apartment, I make a guarantee to return the apartment to you in the same condition that I received it (with a fine to be paid if I do not). It should be my choice whether to assume the risks of a subletter, temporary or long-term.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#45
post #44
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also see this as a problem though. Most likely the person doing this is not the owner of the apartment. I wonder how the original landlords feel about this. Maybe they just don't care, who knows. Seems wrong to be using their apartment for this when they never agreed to it.

I would consider the landlord's involvement in this decision to be an "abstraction violation." When I lease the apartment, I make a guarantee to return the apartment to you in the same condition that I received it (with a fine to be paid if I do not). It should be my choice whether to assume the risks of a subletter, temporary or long-term.

more to the point, nearly all residential leases explicitly prohibit subletting already, so regardless of city law, you are violating your lease by renting out an apartment on the short term without the landlord's permission.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#46
They could ban renting apartments but anyone should be able to rent a spare room, provided you live there yourself. That would rule out the wannabe hotel keepers and make it easier for people to rent their own space, which I believe is the original point of couch crashing.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#47
post #8

Yet another illustration of how those with political power are not subject to the discipline of the market.

The market is created by laws, laws are created by politicians, politicians are elected. That's how a democracy should work, anyway.

City planning is something complicated where I'm not so sure a pure market-driven solution would be optimal. Markets only allocate resources well when there are no externalities. They do nothing towards a fair distribution of wealth. A good example of poor city planning caused by the market is the housing bubble.

I don't know the situation in New York, but if hotels were in fact crowding out the poor from the city, it would be perfectly legitimate to ask if this is desirable.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#48
post #13

The first time I read about something like this I was outraged. "How dare they, the government is blocking people's ability to do business". Then, after some careful thought I started to agree with this ban. Basically I put myself in the shoes of a resident next to a building being used as an illegal hotel. The people do not have the proper permits. Obviously they are not licensed. The fact that there is always new p…

In some cases yes but what about when my mother-in-law came to visit when my daughter was born? The nearest crappy legal hotel was 45 min away and cost $140 a night. She got a one-week sublet two blocks away (family on vacation) for a week for $500.

Regardless of the savings in money, the big difference was the proximity.

Now that will be illegal and she will either visit less often or not stay as long.

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#49
post #47
post #8

Yet another illustration of how those with political power are not subject to the discipline of the market.

The market is created by laws, laws are created by politicians, politicians are elected. That's how a democracy should work, anyway. City planning is something complicated where I'm not so sure a pure market-driven solution would be optimal. Markets only allocate resources well when there are no externalities. They do nothing towards a fair distribution of wealth. A good example of poor city planning caused by the ma…

> They do nothing towards a fair distribution of wealth.

What is the "fair distribution of wealth"? I personally believe that you are only entitled to the wealth you yourself created (or which someone voluntary gave you).

Isn't that a fair distribution of wealth? Or what other metrics do you use?

Re: New York governor approves short-term apartment rental ban in NYC

#50
post #39
post #35

A startup like AirBnB worked to increase ease of entry into the market. Outlawing it is simply protectionism of an industry that simply isn't staying as competitive as many smaller entities organized by a technology. Let's pass a law limiting holding time of tbonds to at least 30 days, shall we?

Or people who live in the most dense housing in the US deciding they don't want randoms, particularly people from out of the city who often aren't aware of just how loud they are, frequently moving in and out as neighbors. As a former and future resident of NYC and current resident of SF, I'd hate to live next to such a place. I did until recently in SF and it sucked.

> randoms, particularly people from out of the city who often aren't aware of just how loud they are

Doesn't stop anyone from in-town either. I lived for a year in a place that the upstairs neighbor stomped everywhere as he was morbidly obese and had to use the toilet frequently. The neighbor on the right played rap and hip-hop at max blast from midnight til 6 am, often leaving it on all day when he left to work. And the couple on the other side had rough sex nightly. And even more interesting is that this place was in a decent part of town, not some slumhole.

> frequently moving in and out as neighbors You mean, like a hotel? There is one two blocks away from my house. Never been a problem. Or, are you more refering to something like transients? My subdivision has a lot of them, Bosnian families moving in extended family, finally getting their gov't grant, and moving out. Hasn't been a problem either... well, except for this one guy, but that was resolved and he wasn't a transient, he owned the home. Is your stance from a fear of strangers and foreigners?

I don't see your arguemenst fit into the equation at all.

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