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'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#361

Post by ben_w »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #354
walterstucco wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a flaw in the original comment, and I wanted to make it clear through a provocation. You don't replace social media with books, there are books I never get bored by, I've read Dune almost 20 times, and I'm sure I will read it again sooner or later. Social media content is based on engagement, not on enjoyment. You don't enjoy the content, you enjoy scrolling through the content at the point that once posted,…

> Think about it: when was the last time that you interrupted reading a book for watching the TV or a movie? > But how many time you've watched your phone while doing something else? I don't think this example proves your point. For me, a book engages ~100% of my cognitive resources; a movie also engages a large amount. Therefore, those activities can't be done simultaneously with other stuff if I'm to enjoy them or…

For me, social media does use all available mental resources. I timed “a quick look at twitter“ once, and when I looked at the clock after what felt like 5 minuets, I found I’d spent 40 minutes absorbed in irrelevant minutae. I can’t tell you a single tweet I read in that time.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#362

Post by atomashpolskiy »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #190
atomashpolskiy wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the whole point of CONSUMERIST technology is to make life easier after all. FTFY

No. Technology, period. It's whole point is to make easier things that are difficult, and make possible things that are otherwise not. Consumerist technology is just crap version of actual technology; the former being designed primarily to make money off consumers.

There is a vast difference between "making things possible" and "making life easier". Same as between a spaceship and a remote TV control. I'd even go as far as to say, that such consumer-oriented interpretation of the role of technology is one of the reasons, why the world is such a mess in 2017.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#363

Post by ZenoArrow »

peoplewindow wrote: post #359
ZenoArrow wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Nobody sat down and said "how do we design Instagram to be maximally addictive"." The evidence points to the contrary. Why would you not want to make, as another commenter put it, a social network site as 'sticky' as possible? You have to understand how sites like Instagram make money, using methods which rely on keeping engagement high. It's the so-called 'Attention Economy'. Here's one article describing how Ins…

What evidence? The article you link to just says they make money through advertising. Yes, and? Your argument is 'their business relies on their users being happy and using their service a lot' which is an empty statement: it's true of all businesses. It's not a sign of addictiveness or anything like that.

You're missing the key part of my argument. There are businesses built around offering products and services that have no need to maintain your attention, for example I'll go to the supermarket when I'm hungry, and I'll go to the barbers when I need a haircut. The difference with the players in the attention economy (including social media sites, news sites, basically almost any site where the main form of income is advertising) is that they rely on getting and keeping your attention on their site. If you can't see the gamification aspects of sites like Instagram as examples of that, I don't know what else I can say that will help you see it.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#364

Post by [deleted] »

hodgesrm wrote: post #144

I don't buy the idea that smartphones are extinguishing the life of the mind. Sure, smartphones provide access to almost unlimited trash. But they also provide access to Wikipedia, perhaps the most successful encyclopedia ever developed by humans. They can show you newspapers from across the planet. They let you read Latin histories of the Norman conquest of Southern Italy in the middle ages. [0] C'mon folks, this is…

[deleted]

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#365

Post by rem1313 »

pdkl95 wrote: post #156
Bucephalus355 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analogy of cigarette companies and Facebook was accurate but deeply shocking, I felt a chill in my hands and almost lost my grip on my phone. I’ve always wondered if in the near future, working for Facebook and Google might be considered shameful, just like how working for Big Tobacco became. I remember one person from college who got a job with a tobacco company promoting Reynolds brands cigarettes to his regio…

The cigarette company analogy also includes the "secondhand smoke"-style problem: Even if I don't personally use their services, I'm still exposed to the problem indirectly with gmail/GA/etc.

And you are exposed to it's effects if you have "users" in your household - the same way as cigarettes

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#366

Post by OtterCoder »

psyc wrote: post #328
jashmenn wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency-mining in the browser (e.g. coin-hive.com) is one of the most interesting new models. Before you have an allergic reaction to this idea, let's first have a discussion of the best-case scenario. Assuming that the publisher openly states they're mining instead of showing ads, and the user understands what's happening, browser-based mining is an attractive alternative to ads. The first benefit is in priva…

It’s only valid if, coincidentally, the market value of hashing happens to be in the ballpark of the revenue the content producer needs.

That's true of advertisement as well.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#367

Post by OtterCoder »

titzer wrote: post #331
jashmenn wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency-mining in the browser (e.g. coin-hive.com) is one of the most interesting new models. Before you have an allergic reaction to this idea, let's first have a discussion of the best-case scenario. Assuming that the publisher openly states they're mining instead of showing ads, and the user understands what's happening, browser-based mining is an attractive alternative to ads. The first benefit is in priva…

At least for bitcoin, software-based mining doesn't compete with ASICs, so doing more mining on clients is a net loss in terms of overall energy efficiency.

I'd rather a site wasted my electricity than my time.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#368

Post by wmeredith »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #6
jgibson wrote: post #4

Does anyone see an analogy with highly processed, sugary foods? Highly addictive, thought to be miracles of convenience, but ultimately detrimental when consumed in excess, and now we are starting to realise that and demand better. I wonder if society will go through the same rejection phase with attention-seeking media consumption. Or maybe those who grow up with it will be better able to control themselves.

David Foster Wallace had the same belief about TV 20 years ago. He seemed more addicted to it than the average bear, more along the lines of how you see people tethered to smartphones today. He very much saw TV as candy - sweet, addictive, not sustaining, and unhealthy without moderation. He talked about it in multiple places, but Although of Course You End Up Becoming Yourself (an interview) discusses it a lot. http…

J.K. Rowling had a pretty fantastic facsimile of this in the Harry Potter series:

"The Mirror of Erised is an ancient, ornate mirror. It has clawed feet and a gold frame... The mirror shows the most desperate desire of a person's heart, a vision that has been known to drive men mad."

"Men have wasted away before it, not knowing if what they have seen is real, or even possible." —Albus Dumbledore explaining the danger of the mirror to Harry Potter

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Erised

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#369

Post by wmeredith »

dualogy wrote: post #106
chiefalchemist wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but I believe the look on his face was one of joy or at least accomplishment. The media parroted that spin. That said, metaphorically we're already in The Matrix. Humans were just fuel for the system. When I see so many over-weight/obese "consumers" I can't help but think how happy the system is to have them; how well they're fulfilling their role. VR glasses will simply close the loop.

> That said, metaphorically we're already in The Matrix. Humans were just fuel for the system. When I see so many over-weight/obese "consumers" Well, if we go with The Matrix, then these battery specimens so far have only been storing energy, not releasing it.. =)

Nah, they're releasing money, not energy.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#370

Post by brational »

afro88 wrote: post #155
chrisco255 wrote: post #24

Does anyone think that Hacker News fits the bill of addictiveness? Or is HN different than Facebook/Reddit/Twitter for some reason?

Yes. I went away a few months ago with my fiancé for 4 days and we did an unofficial smartphone detox. We just got there and said to each other, why not turn the phone data off and leave the phones in the corner of the room. So we did. The holiday was very relaxing. But the most interesting part was when we got back. When I jumped onto hacker news I was overwhelmed by all the headlines about totally different things…

I seem to ignore the "people agree with your view on a thing" or at least it doesn't satisfy. I already know people agree with me or don't - so rationally I don't search for that.

But I definitely experience the "you learnt a thing" addiction. And frankly, I don't know how to feel about that. If that's the thing I'm searching a hit for... do I need to stop that?

I think probably yes - but I'm not sure why. When I thought deeply about it and talked with a friend about it, we somewhat came to a consensus that as long as you still do a significant amount of deep reading, thinking, work, etc per day these little hits of "learnt a thing" probably are fine to endulge.

It's when you're always only "learnt a thing" and never digging deeply into them and applying them that you have a problem.

But what's the right balance? Or is some hits of learnt a thing always bad?

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