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A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

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Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#71

Post by PhasmaFelis »

dvdhnt wrote: post #12
true_tuna wrote: post #5

Yes. All the jobs. Drivers, luggage handlers. The salad cook is just another in the long line of manual jobs that can be done quicker, better, cheaper by a robot. So now what? What job do we guide our children into? What jobs are left as the fall through for kids who decline formal training? I don't know, but we need to answer that question quickly.

> The salad cook is just another in the long line of manual jobs that can be done quicker, better, cheaper by a robot. Allow me to be sentimental for a moment. I agree that some jobs, perhaps even most, can be done "better" by a robot. At least, if we're defining better as more cheaply or "to spec". However, when I go to a nice restaurant, I go because I enjoy the Chef's style, their ability to express their art thro…

I think there will still be professional chefs for a long, long time, for all the reasons you give, and I'm fine with that. But short-order cooks and burger-flippers could be replaced without any loss to the culture--assuming that we can find a way for those people to live happily without needing to prove their worthiness through labor.

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#72

Post by allenz »

yann63 wrote: post #65
true_tuna wrote: post #5

Yes. All the jobs. Drivers, luggage handlers. The salad cook is just another in the long line of manual jobs that can be done quicker, better, cheaper by a robot. So now what? What job do we guide our children into? What jobs are left as the fall through for kids who decline formal training? I don't know, but we need to answer that question quickly.

Is it the question we should ask? I'd prefer to ask another question: is it time to change our society, to go away from paid jobs? A job is one of the things that currently defines us, one of the first questions you ask someone you just met is often to know what job they are in. If all jobs were automated, we could have more interesting occupations: taking care of our childrens, elders, neighbors, growing our garden,…

For a realist, the question is whether people with power benefit from your proposed change, or whether they are invested in the current system. If the system doesn't change, then robots may be detrimental.

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#73

Post by PhasmaFelis »

cookingrobot wrote: post #52
dvdhnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The salad cook is just another in the long line of manual jobs that can be done quicker, better, cheaper by a robot. Allow me to be sentimental for a moment. I agree that some jobs, perhaps even most, can be done "better" by a robot. At least, if we're defining better as more cheaply or "to spec". However, when I go to a nice restaurant, I go because I enjoy the Chef's style, their ability to express their art thro…

People will prefer meals cooked by robots for the same reason they listen to recorded music. Everyone will have access to the best creations of the best chefs, instead of today where the closest you can get is watching them cook on tv. It will be a new media where artists can directly share their work with the world.

Most people enjoy recorded music, but most people also like to see their favorite artists live, when they can. I think it's the same thing.

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#74

Post by allenz »

School-Cotton wrote: post #15
dvdhnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The salad cook is just another in the long line of manual jobs that can be done quicker, better, cheaper by a robot. Allow me to be sentimental for a moment. I agree that some jobs, perhaps even most, can be done "better" by a robot. At least, if we're defining better as more cheaply or "to spec". However, when I go to a nice restaurant, I go because I enjoy the Chef's style, their ability to express their art thro…

So the maybe 10% of people who fetishize artisanry will still create demand for service jobs. But this is an edge case.

Also, maybe 10% of chefs view their work as art, rather than as a way to earn money.

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#75

Post by PhasmaFelis »

astrodust wrote: post #47
Zigurd wrote: post #23

I'd bet my lease gets reviewed by an AI before I eat a robot-cooked meal. Food is variable and dirty and the downside risk of not being clean is pretty bad, even acknowledging that robots will always wash their hands. Maintenance, risk, and general exposure to meatspace, in every sense, means that knowledge workers will probably be the first to be automated out of a job.

What if the robot runs out of disinfectant and nobody notices or cares? Robots are only as clean as the company that owns and inspects them permits them to be.

Giving the robot a disinfectant-level sensor, delivering an alert when it's low and refusing to operate if it can't do so cleanly, would be trivial compared to the rest of the endeavor, and will probably be required the FDA or equivalent, eventually.

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#76

Post by petre »

greglindahl wrote: post #34
statictype wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's different is that the button was being pushed by a human. That human gets paid a salary and earns a living. And that human could presumably choose not to push the button if the expresso machine tries to become sentient (in theory).

The vending machine still has many humans involved: building it involved humans, maintaining it involves humans. The difference is that the button is pushed by the customer. That's the same amount of human labor, actually, it's just that the customer isn't paying someone else for the button press.

I believe the vending machine has greater work overhead and uses more materials than an actual human. Thnik about it: precut veggies stored in refrigerated (probably plastic) containers. Somebody has to supply and prepare the veggies. Some other human has to resupply the machine when it runs out of veggies. Some other human has to fix the vending machine when it stops working. Some other humans have to design the machine and assemble it, at least in part. With an actual human you'd only have to supply the raw veggies and the human worker would do all the preparation (using food processors), serving and processing payments. One could automate some tasks like payment processing or have two humans operate the salad bar: one that prepares and serves the salads and one that processes payments. This would avoid cooks switching between working with (dirty) cash and preparing salads.

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#77

Post by petre »

astrodust wrote: post #45
statictype wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's different is that the button was being pushed by a human. That human gets paid a salary and earns a living. And that human could presumably choose not to push the button if the expresso machine tries to become sentient (in theory).

That human can, if properly trained and motivated, recognize when the coffee being served isn't coming out right. They can interface with customers and resolve complicated human problems, de-escalating when necessary to find a good outcome. A robot has no way of knowing if the coffee will taste good or contains rat poison. It's just going through the motions. If it serves you a dud drink you can't argue with it, you…

That's probably why humans start hitting vending machines when they just gobble up the cash and fail to operate properly.

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#78

Post by icebraining »

Zigurd wrote: post #23

I'd bet my lease gets reviewed by an AI before I eat a robot-cooked meal. Food is variable and dirty and the downside risk of not being clean is pretty bad, even acknowledging that robots will always wash their hands. Maintenance, risk, and general exposure to meatspace, in every sense, means that knowledge workers will probably be the first to be automated out of a job.

Unless you just eat stuff grown by you or very small-scale farmers, robots are already touching your food. From the combine harvester that picks it up, to the conveyor belt where it's selected, cut, washed and pre-cooked [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC32345D87EF2F305

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#79

Post by setr »

j7ake wrote: post #70
jamesrcole wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A robot has no way of knowing if the coffee will taste good or contains rat poison Eventually automated systems ought to be able to do this better than most people can. Why couldn't there be engineered sensors that could detect such things very well?

Because there is no theory linking interaction of molecules to flavour yet, although there are some preliminary work from some labs on this (with beer)

Seeing as humans don't usually taste their coffee before serving, identifying flavour is probably not strictly necessary to the task.

And given that the act of making good-enough coffee isn't a very difficult task (given how readily available and quickly trained "baristas" are), and how mechanical the process is already, im not sure there's anything to suggest it isn't do-able. Its more likely a matter of cost and scale

Re: A Robot Makes a Mean Caesar Salad, but Will It Cost Jobs?

#80

Post by petre »

saboot wrote: post #61
astrodust wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That human can, if properly trained and motivated, recognize when the coffee being served isn't coming out right. They can interface with customers and resolve complicated human problems, de-escalating when necessary to find a good outcome. A robot has no way of knowing if the coffee will taste good or contains rat poison. It's just going through the motions. If it serves you a dud drink you can't argue with it, you…

Why do we need an extra person? There's already a human present, the customer. Let them submit the feedback and fix their coffee at the same time.

I don't want to get through the hurdle of contacting Big Co. through an automated form when the vending machine has scammed me. It's way easier with a human operator. Ever tried to dial into a call center and waited like 30 minutes after navigating through voice menus in order to talk to an actual human to fix your problem?
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