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A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

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Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#81

Post by noahmbarr »

FRAMES - $0.50-1.50: Injection modeled (plastic) frames. Everything is pretty much made in China. - $2.00-3.50: Metal frames. There were something like 3 factories still left in Italy 15 years ago, but I imagine everything has moved to China by this point.

LENS Local labs (and increasingly regional labs) mass customize these lens blanks based on frame and prescription details. - $7-11: For a pair of single vision lenses - $35-40: For a pair of transition lenses with progressive prescription - A couple dollars for labor AT MOST - A couple dollars for additional high end treatments that isn't already backed into the blanks (large CapEx now involved in these treatment machines hence the regionalization of these labs).

VISION INSURANCE - More of a discount program than insurance - Labs are often what "vision insurance" own with a discount program that is extended to you via these services at your local optometrist. - Medical insurance (not your vision insurance) covers anything serious...generally when you need to go see an Opthamologist or a Eye surgeon

LUXOTTICA They are aggressive, smart, license a good chunk of the luxury brands, AND vertically integrated to the nth degree. And yes, they own one of the largest "vision insurance" companies too, EyeMed.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#82

Post by SyneRyder »

rgbrenner wrote: post #49
lighthazard wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of good designs for non-Luxottica brand frames is appalling. I use a third party eye glass company to order frames + lenses for < $100 and get good quality stuff (but not the best styles). Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion?

Luxottica offered to buy Oakley, and Oakley refused.. said it was never going to happen. So Luxottica stopped distributing Oakley's products in Sunglass Hut, etc.. which deprived Oakley of the majority of it's revenue, causing their stock to crash. Oakley then accepted a buyout offer from Luxottica. So to answer your question, why are there not better Luxottica competitors.. because when someone produces a good produ…

Did Oakley have their retail outlets at that time? Or did that come after the Luxottica purchase?

When I bought my Oakleys last year, most of my research was by browsing in the two Oakley retail stores in my city. Some was from browsing at surfwear stores (as far as I know, Luxottica don't own Rip Curl or City Beach).

A small portion of my shopping research was on my (Luxottica-owned) optometrist's website, but I ended up buying from the Oakley Factory Outlet store.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#83

Post by bambax »

vidoc wrote: post #34
jgalt212 wrote: post #2

Europeans seem to wear glasses at a much higher rate than Americans. Is there is structural reason for the preference of glasses over contacts?

In France, this industry is nothing short of fascinating, it's just an enormous bubble, almost entirely financed by the public sector, it's a market that is so broken it's almost hilarious. You basically have the glass covered by the government, as well as very basic frames, that you will typically not consider, since your company insurance policy probably comes with a plan covering frames. As a customer, you don't r…

All true. Also, since the glasses are better covered than the frames, vendors routinely offer to move the cost for the frames onto the glasses, so for example if you want a frame that costs €300 (!) but your insurance covers up to €200 for frames then they will charge €200 for the frame and an extra €50 for each glass.

This is completely illegal but every shop does it (suggests it without prompting from customers).

It's all insane but there seems no way to stop it.

Many online shops have started to appear but they too charge a lot (all reimbursed by public/private insurance). There doesn't seem to be really cheap options.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#84

Post by tech5000 »

As I write this, I am attending SILMO 2017 optical trade show in Paris. I've been attending for a few years and what you see when talking to industry participants is that there is real aversion to business models that can disrupt the industry to lower costs. Frame suppliers that sell to brick-and-mortar shops will very often refuse to sell to e-commerce players, for fear of alienating their brick and mortar accounts for example. Opticians will often refuse to disclose pupillary distance, as a way to prevent their customer from purchasing elsewhere. Many states/provinces/countries have pre-Internet laws on the books that effectively disallow selling online, and efforts to amend those laws to keep pace with technology are aggressively derailed by special interest groups.

As noted elsewhere in this discussion, it was expensive before. Independent opticians feel attacked on one side by e-commerce, and on the other side by Essilor/Luxottica, chains in general, and big-box stores The real issue may be that they can't see the value in changing how they have always worked or that even if individual opticians are open to change, they are stuck in a supply chain that may hold exactly the opposite view.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#85

Post by anonintons »

Does anyone know if the various brands of lens matters, e.g. Nikon v Hoya v Carl Zeiss...

I have pretty bad vision, -9.0 and astigmatism so the optometrist recommend I get 1.74 high index lenses from Nikon [1], because according to him, it would be "harder/more impact resistant" and the quality would be better.

I also got additional coatings, like anti-reflective, blue light, UV, etc...

So I'm just wondering, if the brand actually matters or are they also all made by a single large factory? Are Nikon lenses that much better than the generic ones from Warby Parker?

1. http://nikonlenswear.com/products/see-series/seecoat-plus

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#86

Post by teslabox »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #75
walterbell wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have free shipping. Hi-index single vision lenses are included in frame prices, https://www.jins.com . JINS PC (blue-light blocking) glasses were an industry marketing breakthrough, selling almost 1 million units in the first year, https://corp.jins.com/jp/en/company/history . Their success prompted eyeglass lens makers to launch blue-blocking coatings, now widely available.

Can anyone shed some light on whether blue-blocking coatings are actually useful/good for you?

> Can anyone shed some light on whether blue-blocking coatings are actually useful/good for you?

A HN comment set me looking for some blue-blockers for night driving: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14170975

My locally-owned sunglass shop stocks yellow blue blocker safety goggles that fit over my glasses. They turn obnoxious blue headlights green. I give them a 'blue headlight obnoxiousness reduction factor' of 85%.

The orange safety goggles ("uvex") I ordered from Amazon first were better (95%), but they block out too much green to be safe for night driving.

http://cocoonseyewear.com/find_a_dealer/ - overx.com (imprinted on my yellow glasses) redirects to this site, but what I have isn't shown on their site...

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#87

Post by anonintons »

hkmurakami wrote: post #20

If you're ever in Japan or Taiwan, have some glasses made there. JINS in Japan is ~$120 including lenses, lenses ready in 3 hours. Pick up same day. I heard there's a company in Taiwan with a similar business model as well. They're set up to handle tourists, and will handle duty free as well.

If you are in LA, there are some JINS stores too.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#88

Post by SyneRyder »

shusson wrote: post #33

Every time I walk into an eyewear place, I walk out feeling frustrated and angry. That being said, I recently found https://dresden.com.au/ , who are making decent prescription glasses for as low as $50 AU.

Thanks for the recommendation, I love the German/Australian crossover marketing on that site. I wish they weren't so hipster looking, but I'm still tempted to visit the store anyway. Something about their attitude and approach to business really grabs me.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#89

Post by dragonwriter »

sowbug wrote: post #39
lighthazard wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of good designs for non-Luxottica brand frames is appalling. I use a third party eye glass company to order frames + lenses for < $100 and get good quality stuff (but not the best styles). Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion?

Same question for men's ties (though it's been a while since I've been in the market for one). Expensive ties have attractive patterns, and cheap ones have horrifying ones. But the pattern is effectively software. Is a nice tie pattern truly that hard to create?

Prices aren't determined solely on the supply side.

Patterns that people are willing to pay more for are more expensive because there is more money chasing them, not because they are more expensive to create.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#90

Post by dingo_bat »

rgbrenner wrote: post #49
lighthazard wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of good designs for non-Luxottica brand frames is appalling. I use a third party eye glass company to order frames + lenses for < $100 and get good quality stuff (but not the best styles). Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion?

Luxottica offered to buy Oakley, and Oakley refused.. said it was never going to happen. So Luxottica stopped distributing Oakley's products in Sunglass Hut, etc.. which deprived Oakley of the majority of it's revenue, causing their stock to crash. Oakley then accepted a buyout offer from Luxottica. So to answer your question, why are there not better Luxottica competitors.. because when someone produces a good produ…

We need Bezos to enter the market.
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