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A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

businessoffashion.com

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Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#31

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lighthazard wrote: post #30
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see an independent ophthalmologist. He stocks both Luxottica and non-Luxottica frames. Every time, they and I blindly select frames with a bias against Luxottica. Every time, I choose the Luxottica frame. Somehow, that company has cornered the market for decently-built frames for non-hipsters.

The lack of good designs for non-Luxottica brand frames is appalling. I use a third party eye glass company to order frames + lenses for < $100 and get good quality stuff (but not the best styles). Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion?

> Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion?

I am honestly curious if this is primarily a materials, vendor, distribution, design personnel or intellectual property bottleneck.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#32

Post by frostburg »

walterbell wrote: post #29
frostburg wrote: post #22

I didn't do it to avoid the Luxottica monopoly, but I moved to Mykita frames (fitted with zeiss or hoya lenses, since I like my sunglasses to be corrected too - can't wear contacts) and I wholeheartedly recommend them. The steel ones are exceptionally light and easy to clean. Design is subjective, but the 'studio' line is generally rather inoffensive (I do have a pair of the Damir Doma ones, too - https://my.mixtape.…

There's a 200 page, 8-years running, active thread on eyewear/frame selection, https://www.styleforum.net/threads/ask-me-about-eyewear.1205... Boutique frames are not usually available online, only from authorized B&M retailers. Because of the cost, opticians only carry a few models. Sometimes older models show up on Amazon and eBay. A few models are available at http://www.pretavoir.co.uk/us/ and http://framesdirect…

I'm a bit confused about people buying glasses online. How do they check for comfort? What about the prescription lenses?

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#34

Post by vidoc »

jgalt212 wrote: post #2

Europeans seem to wear glasses at a much higher rate than Americans. Is there is structural reason for the preference of glasses over contacts?

In France, this industry is nothing short of fascinating, it's just an enormous bubble, almost entirely financed by the public sector, it's a market that is so broken it's almost hilarious. You basically have the glass covered by the government, as well as very basic frames, that you will typically not consider, since your company insurance policy probably comes with a plan covering frames.

As a customer, you don't really care, its mostly free for you of course, or worst case scenario you will have to do the deductible. When you go to a store with your prescription, they don't even bother talking about the cost side of things, all they want to know is what insurance you have. In a way it has a few similarities with the US health care system, prices are ridiculously high, often very opaque, sort of like in a legal mafia. In addition to this, the few people who have cornered this business have made sure it's hard to buy contacts or vision glasses in the next country. To give you an idea, just the glasses typically cost something like 200, except per glass, and as you know you will need two. They also have no problem charging you all kinds of useless options you don't need, the classic for example, consists in automatically adding the anti glare coding option by default if the client is an older person.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#35

Post by bitwize »

sitharus wrote: post #7
Chevalier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orrr among people who wear vision correction, the US population has a higher median income that can afford contact lenses. Without condemning anyone, the US has a very stratified class system. Those lower on the socio-economic ladder may not invest in vision care, which is a more complicated and expensive proposition in the US than it is in Europe. Among those that do, the US population probably has more disposable i…

Or Europeans simply don't mind wearing obvious corrective lenses? There are a huge number of societal factors in play here.

Yeah, America is stridently anti-intellectual, and glasses make you look like a nerd.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#36

Post by StillBored »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31
lighthazard wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of good designs for non-Luxottica brand frames is appalling. I use a third party eye glass company to order frames + lenses for < $100 and get good quality stuff (but not the best styles). Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion?

> Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion? I am honestly curious if this is primarily a materials, vendor, distribution, design personnel or intellectual property bottleneck.

I've purchased ~6-8 pairs of glasses from zenni, primary because I'm really happy that they don't gouge the heck out of me for lenses with high refraction indexes or various coatings.

That said, the frames are totally hit or miss, with some of them feeling like they aren't worth the $10-20 or whatever they cost. I find though, its no so much materials as attention to detail. The materials themselves withstand a beating. One of my favorite pairs _rattled_ when I got it because the little plastic nose pieces, and the little plastic piece that fit over the end of the arms was lose. Drop of glue in the ear pieces, and a softer nose piece and they are now my favorite glasses.

OTOH, I also owned a half dozen pairs of ray-bans before I switched to zenni, and probably 3/4 of them had finish problems within the first couple years. The coating on the plastic pieces started to disintegrate leaving a sticky residue on one pair, and three pairs with metal frames had the clear varnish like substance start to crack and peel from the metallic finish. Another started to discolor after a couple years. I guess at least rayban has perfected planned obsolescence...

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#37

Post by walterbell »

frostburg wrote: post #32
walterbell wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a 200 page, 8-years running, active thread on eyewear/frame selection, https://www.styleforum.net/threads/ask-me-about-eyewear.1205... Boutique frames are not usually available online, only from authorized B&M retailers. Because of the cost, opticians only carry a few models. Sometimes older models show up on Amazon and eBay. A few models are available at http://www.pretavoir.co.uk/us/ and http://framesdirect…

I'm a bit confused about people buying glasses online. How do they check for comfort? What about the prescription lenses?

For frames and single vision lenses, ideally you would be able to find out:

  - frame width (temple to temple)
  - bridge size (nose width)
  - A size (width of lens)
  - B size (height of lens)
  - temple length (arm that goes over ear)
  - base curve / frame wrap angle
  - panto (vertical incline of lens)
Frame manufacturer's web site has some info, at least [lens width - bridge - temple] are provided. To determine frame fit, you need sizes from current frame or model numbers from frames tested at a B&M store.

An optician will measure where your eyes are located horizontally (pupillary distance) and vertically in the frame (fitting height). This determines where the optical center (clearest vision) of the lens will be located in the frame. Most online sites for single vision lenses do not have an input field for fitting height, using averages instead. But they often have a "special instructions" field where you can enter custom instructions, including fitting height. HN thread on PD measurement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15154066

Progressive (varifocal) lenses are complex to buy even at B&M, never mind online, because fitting and use-case analysis matter more than with single vision lenses.

Since FramesDirect is owned by Essilor, they use Essilor lenses, which are well known. Other online sites don't say much about their lens manufacturer. http://eyeglasslensdirect.com (US) and http://specsdirect.ca (Canada) sell branded premium lenses at discount prices, online reviews are mixed. There are 1700 old msgs about cheap online glasses at https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?hl=en#!forum/glassyeyes

If the Luxxotica-Essilor merger goes through, retail stores like LensCrafters may start providing fitting/adjustment for online stores. A better outcome would be for independent opticians to unbundle their fitting/adjustment pricing, so you can buy your frames at one store (or reuse a high quality frame), a premium branded lens at another store/online, and obtain your frame fitting at a B&M optician.

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#38

Post by vidoc »

bitwize wrote: post #35
sitharus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Europeans simply don't mind wearing obvious corrective lenses? There are a huge number of societal factors in play here.

Yeah, America is stridently anti-intellectual, and glasses make you look like a nerd.

> Yeah, America is stridently anti-intellectual, and glasses make you look like a nerd.

Which reminds me how Woody Allen once said, when asked why he was so beloved and respected in Europe, that apparently they might think he is an intellectual, since he's wearing glasses :)

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#39

Post by sowbug »

lighthazard wrote: post #30
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see an independent ophthalmologist. He stocks both Luxottica and non-Luxottica frames. Every time, they and I blindly select frames with a bias against Luxottica. Every time, I choose the Luxottica frame. Somehow, that company has cornered the market for decently-built frames for non-hipsters.

The lack of good designs for non-Luxottica brand frames is appalling. I use a third party eye glass company to order frames + lenses for < $100 and get good quality stuff (but not the best styles). Why are they not able to compete on style and fashion?

Same question for men's ties (though it's been a while since I've been in the market for one). Expensive ties have attractive patterns, and cheap ones have horrifying ones. But the pattern is effectively software. Is a nice tie pattern truly that hard to create?

Re: A Closer Look at the $13B Premium Eyewear Market

#40

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

walterbell wrote: post #13
petilon wrote: post #8

The reason glasses cost so much is because one company owns: (1) nearly all brand name frames including Ray-Ban, Oakley, Prada eyewear, Armani eyewear and so on, (2) nearly all retail stores such as LensCrafters, Pearle Vision, Sears Optical and Target Optical and (3) EyeMed, one of the largest vision insurance companies. Luxottica retail brands: http://www.luxottica.com/en/retail-brands Luxottica eyewear brands: htt…

In Jan 2017, Luxottica announced a merger with the largest lens maker, Essilor. EU antitrust is reviewing, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-luxottica-essilor-merger/... In turn, Essilor has ownership in Shamir, Eyebuydirect, FramesDirect, Coastal, Coolwinks, Costa Del Mar, Elens, Eotica and Foster Grant, https://www.essilor.com/en/the-group/activities-and-distribu... If EU regulators allow the merger to go through,…

Yes, Dems also specifically mention Luxottica in their 2018 platform. Not that I expect them to work on it, but maybe we can see the end of high priced glasses soon.
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