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The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

nytimes.com

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Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#41

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

monort wrote: post #25
twblalock wrote: post #11

This opioid epidemic has made me question my position on legalization of drugs. I had believed that, in general, legalization of drugs would be a good policy -- it worked fine for marijuana where it has been tried, and I doubted that very many people who don't take hard drugs would start doing so if they were legalized. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems to be the case that some opioid addicts transition from using presc…

If opioids could be sold for recreational use, I think they would be sold with a naloxone in one package, reducing the number of deaths from overdose.

Similarly, regulated drug dens (like regulated brothels) are a perfectly tennable idea. There are middle ground solutions between "ban everything!" and "sell it everywhere!"

It's surprisingly hard to OD with a clean supply, measured dosing, and emergency services on site. I don't think that clean, supervised drug use is actually any more dangerous than say... skydiving or bungee-jumping.

(It's actually hard to fatally OD with just one vaguely sober person an nasal naloxone, but that's more specific to opiates.)

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#42

Post by ttonkytonk »

thr0waway187 wrote: post #8
pmoriarty wrote: post #2

"With the nation snared in what the government says is the worst drug epidemic in its history..." When have I heard that before? Maybe during the crack epidemic. Or the meth epidemic. Now it's the opioids' turn. "But this time it's different," I'm sure.

Yes, this time is different -- since white people are dying, we suddenly feel sympathy. When blacks OD from crack, they were thrown into jail and treated like morally failed individuals. When whites die from heroin, we feel sympathy and want to treat them.

I'm guessing opiates are more deadly than crack.

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#43

Post by greggarious »

twblalock wrote: post #11

This opioid epidemic has made me question my position on legalization of drugs. I had believed that, in general, legalization of drugs would be a good policy -- it worked fine for marijuana where it has been tried, and I doubted that very many people who don't take hard drugs would start doing so if they were legalized. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems to be the case that some opioid addicts transition from using presc…

>This opioid epidemic has made me question my position on legalization of drugs.

You know what? I am too. If you spoke to me years ago, I'd say much of the danger from opiates comes from not knowing what dose you're taking. Much of the crime comes from the price (due to it being black market). Much of the crime comes from addicts who can't afford their fix (due to the price) or rival dealer (who can't settle disputes in the courts).

Now I think maybe a decriminalization for hard drugs would be better. Purchasing / possessing is not criminalized (or subject to a small fine, like smoking a joint in public is treated in weed-legal states.

(I'm also in support of the states that have ramped up their age to buy tobacco to 21)

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#44

Post by greggarious »

njarboe wrote: post #14
twblalock wrote: post #11

This opioid epidemic has made me question my position on legalization of drugs. I had believed that, in general, legalization of drugs would be a good policy -- it worked fine for marijuana where it has been tried, and I doubted that very many people who don't take hard drugs would start doing so if they were legalized. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems to be the case that some opioid addicts transition from using presc…

If you read up on Oxycontin, it was formulated and prescribed in a particular way that created many addicts[1]. In particular it was claimed to work for 12 hours when in some people worked for much less. Being on an opiate for pain and then having it wear off and being forced to wait in pain for sometime before taking it again, is a recipe for creating addiction. Many people also were less wary of taking the opiates…

I have zero background in chemistry, so this may be a dumb question: but if the issue is it not lasting 12 hours, why can't doctors halve the dose and prescribe it twice as often per day?

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#45

Post by galeforcewinds »

When no other action has driven change, financial factors seem to often spur movement. Autopsies in NH are paid for by the state, so a surge will surely trigger a deeper awareness in the legislature. There have also been a number of stories recently about workforce capacity losses and hiring challenges; this places the problem more squarely in the domain of businesses which may have deeper pockets than the government. It is my prediction that before long we'll see lawmakers announcing new public-private initiatives sponsored by large companies to combat the opioid crisis at a community level. I think we're on the leading side of this trend, as government initiatives on the health industry level are just getting rolling, https://www.nih.gov/opioid-crisis

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#46

Post by KGIII »

brainfire wrote: post #32
marindez wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard this argument many times now and I still fail to see how we’re feeling sympathy for these people. Every time this conversation is brought up I see 0 solutions and people that very low-key suggest these people have to die because coal must disappear, because outsourcing to China is good because we’re living in a global economy, because they vote Trump and they don’t share our liberal view of society and the…

Those are some... pretty strange views. Where do you see them expressed?

One from this thread is fairly close to what they described.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15427888

The not deserving of much sympathy really brings it home. After all, rural white hillbillies don't deserve sympathy, I guess? I'd say that's rather prejudiced and, no, I'm not white.

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#47

Post by vasilipupkin »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #41
monort wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If opioids could be sold for recreational use, I think they would be sold with a naloxone in one package, reducing the number of deaths from overdose.

Similarly, regulated drug dens (like regulated brothels) are a perfectly tennable idea. There are middle ground solutions between "ban everything!" and "sell it everywhere!" It's surprisingly hard to OD with a clean supply, measured dosing, and emergency services on site. I don't think that clean, supervised drug use is actually any more dangerous than say... skydiving or bungee-jumping. (It's actually hard to fatall…

If opioids were sold for recreational purposes, companies would compete to invent an opioid that you simply can't OD on, or it's very difficult to OD on. Maybe, that version could be the legalized version and every other version banned. Other than the risk of overdose, does opioid use generate any more health problems than say alcohol use?

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#48

Post by ttonkytonk »

stinos wrote: post #9
andrewem wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. See for instance https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/05/upshot/opioid... with a graph showing US drug overdose deaths are far higher now (well, as of 2016 estimated data) than ever before. There are indeed many drug panics. This one is the real thing.

I had no idea that drug overdoses are the number 1 cause of mortaliy for people under 50 in the US. Ok I don't live there, and I know from the web and talking to US citizens it's not all as sunny&happy as some media wants the outside world to believe, but this sounds pretty bad. The NYT article wisely doesn't try to point to an underlying cause, anyone? Is it e.g. a worsening of socio-economic factors or is there mor…

This isn't exclusive to the U.S. of course, but there's the pernicious view that they're "bad people", they make bad choices etc.

To this view I would reply with the idea, attributed to Socrates, that there is no such thing as "moral weakness", or that doing good and bad amounts to knowledge of what is good or bad or a lack of it (keeping in mind knowledge could be more than merely mental abstractions).

Now unless this idea can be disproven, how can "moral weakness" be used as a justification to ignore the plight of these people?

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#49

Post by tqkxzugoaupvwqr »

twblalock wrote: post #11

This opioid epidemic has made me question my position on legalization of drugs. I had believed that, in general, legalization of drugs would be a good policy -- it worked fine for marijuana where it has been tried, and I doubted that very many people who don't take hard drugs would start doing so if they were legalized. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems to be the case that some opioid addicts transition from using presc…

Legalization should be accompanied by a comprehensive public health program. The goal should be to eliminate addiction. In particular it should be done like this: When a drug is legalized, it must only be dispensed by licensed health centers / clinics. Anyone can obtain the drug there but must go through public health workers that will help you find treatments. Basically, make addicts come to you so you can keep an eye on their health and help them get better. Fewer addicts also mean greater safety for society due to less criminality.

Re: The rise of drug overdoses in New Hampshire has created a backlog of autopsies

#50

Post by cottonflop »

arjie wrote: post #19
twblalock wrote: post #11

This opioid epidemic has made me question my position on legalization of drugs. I had believed that, in general, legalization of drugs would be a good policy -- it worked fine for marijuana where it has been tried, and I doubted that very many people who don't take hard drugs would start doing so if they were legalized. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems to be the case that some opioid addicts transition from using presc…

Why shouldn't we let them die? One in six base jumpers will die young while jumping. We don't make that illégal. I mean, everyone knows you can overdose. So that makes it a conscious choice, and we should preserve people's ability to make an informed choice to put themselves in danger.

Should we then also legalize all forms of suicide, so long as the person has made an informed choice?
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