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'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#291

Post by jessaustin »

intended wrote: post #283
mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #275

This article makes me question my purpose as a designer. I spend my days looking at the screen and figuring out ways to get people to spend more of their money on junk they don't need. The sad part is that I work with incredibly good people who think they are somehow contributing to our society by helping companies grow their revenue. I guess on one hand companies are selling more and perhaps hiring more people which…

I think your position is important - because I think this battle may be lost. Regulation is the only solution, but that’s just tossing the ball to another team and hoping for a magic win. Even should regulation manage to handle this - it’s only the first step between this and what worse comes next. We’re moving directly to the worst options of mine control and people are only useful for the neurological reactions you…

Improvement of society starts with improvement of self. If we each refuse to cooperate, by curtailing our "use" of various horrible online services, we can be the inspiration for our families and communities to do the same.

I like to think that, but I have not-so-distant family who, after learning I would not join FaceBook just to help them with a problem they claimed was quite important to them but would be very responsive over plain old-fashioned email, haven't sent a single email.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#292

Post by chiefalchemist »

dualogy wrote: post #106
chiefalchemist wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but I believe the look on his face was one of joy or at least accomplishment. The media parroted that spin. That said, metaphorically we're already in The Matrix. Humans were just fuel for the system. When I see so many over-weight/obese "consumers" I can't help but think how happy the system is to have them; how well they're fulfilling their role. VR glasses will simply close the loop.

> That said, metaphorically we're already in The Matrix. Humans were just fuel for the system. When I see so many over-weight/obese "consumers" Well, if we go with The Matrix, then these battery specimens so far have only been storing energy, not releasing it.. =)

Not to get too off topic but I want to add this. What was one of the first things POTUS GWB told the USA public after 9.11?

"Keeping shopping."

And no one even notice. So perhaps there's some 1984 going on as well?

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#293

Post by dtornabene »

keeptrying wrote: post #196

If this is true Then it also presents a unique opportunity. I.e. There should be a very real and observable productivity boost from being able to ignore your phone and working on career building/family-relationship projects. If you can tear yourself from your phone for 3 Hours a day and work on career building projects, you should be able to get far ahead of others in your social circles who can't break the addiction…

love that the take away to an article like this is "well this presents me with an opportunity!! I can use others weakness to my benefit!"

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#295

Post by ben_w »

sumeno wrote: post #270
ben_w wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They (or, rather, the software they connect to) are holding me back from precisely that. If there was no social media, the novel I’m writing would have been done a year ago.

And yet more books are being written now than at any other time in human history. Perhaps you are just making excuses. It is far easier to blame externalities than taking responsibility.

I’m actively seeking ways to block those sites, precisely in order to take responsibility.

Also, the population is higher now than ever before, as is the literacy rate. Both of these independently increase production of books.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#296

Post by dest »

hellbanner wrote: post #264
archiepeach wrote: post #228

As noted multiple times in the article, the unethical design we’re seeing in popular apps and services today is largely a result of the widespread use of advertising as a revenue model. This is an appropriate time to show appreciation and support for the companies who are trying to demonstrate successful revenue models which are NOT based on advertising: Medium - the replacement of “Recommends” with “Claps” was to al…

There are a few services like https://digitaltipjar.com/faq I'm looking for one that was a browser plugin - you click it every site you want to support (if that site opted in). Then, your monthly spend eg. $5 is split between all of the sites you chose to support. It let users commit to paying $N per month for their favorite sites, without having to calculate "should I give 1 or 10.." etc. Anyone remember this? I saw…

Flattr?

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#297

Post by ben_w »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #224
ben_w wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They (or, rather, the software they connect to) are holding me back from precisely that. If there was no social media, the novel I’m writing would have been done a year ago.

It wouldn't. You would spend a lot of time watching TV, reading novels, or hanging out in the bar.

I’m teetotal, so I only go to the pub to socialise. That in turn requires several friends to want to go at the same time.

TV, fortunely for me, is not something I find addictive. I don’t own a TV, and the number of shows I care about seeing online or with friends is, on average, about 1h per week.

Reading more novels would be a good thing for me at this point. Long-form prose requires focus for several hours; exactly the mental state I want to have.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#298

Post by peoplewindow »

jansho wrote: post #289
peoplewindow wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the systems are designed to 'hook' people that way No they aren't. Nobody sat down and said "how do we design Instagram to be maximally addictive". They just said, hey, look, I made some neat photo filters and someone else said, hey, love the filters, it'd be neat if I could share these photos with my friends. Badaboom, a social network. The fact that so many people spend so many hours on Instagram is…

Sorry, this is a strawman response. I was pretty clear about my concern for unfortunate unintended consequences; nobody is saying that there's a Silicon Valley conspiracy in action! Incidentally, I agree with your points on the benefits of social media. And it's awesome that we have so much engaging content today, but please explain if it's really OK for kids to get hooked on YouTube etc five hours a day. The solutio…

I was pretty clear about my concern for unfortunate unintended consequences

The part of your post I quoted literally says "the systems are designed to hook people". It also says "Do we need to totally discourage unethical tactics like dark patterns".

Don't try to wriggle out of it. The words "design" and "tactics" mean deliberate intended action, agency. My post is not a strawman: it responds to exactly what you were saying. Perhaps on reflection you think that position was too extreme: OK then.

please explain if it's really OK for kids to get hooked on YouTube etc five hours a day

Sure. They're kids. What would you rather they do? Play football for five hours a day, like my grandparent's generation did? Read story books - the ultimate form of passive media consumption? At least on YouTube they might be learning something more useful than how to kick a ball around, and who knows, might even be inspired to create something themselves.

I think a lot of the complaints about social media and YouTube overlook that point. It's easy to complain. What's your proposed better alternative?

As a daily Instagram user, I do take offence with your comment regarding Instagram and girls

Alright, be offended, my lived experience does not care. All the girls I know use Instagram all the time. None of the guys do. I realise there are exceptions, it's a huge network. But I know from discussions with other men that they've had the same observation as me. If you find that fact offensive, too bad!

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#299

Post by ben_w »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #268
walterstucco wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one point you stop watching TV, because there are no more new things to watch, you stop reading novels because they aren't novel anymore, you stop going to the bar because there's a fixed amount of alcohol you can consume, it costs money, the bar has opening hours. Smartphone follows you everywhere, all the time.

if You can get bored of novels with all their formats and styles and character arcs and high complexity why can’t you get bored of scrolling through empty one-or-two line updates of people’s lives that you know don’t r fleet reality? It’s basically a worse novel that also makes you feel bad for reading it.

Same reason people eat candy and happy meals, get fat and die young of an obesity induced heart attack. It’s rubbish, but rubbish which makes you feel good when you consume it and miss it when you don’t.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#300

Post by walshemj »

musage wrote: post #133
walshemj wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is what they said about TVm rock and roll, comic books computer games etcetera etcetera going back to the dawn of time. As Socrates's says “The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” Not mention the shocking depravity of shaving and painting statues blue

Oh, that old chestnut. I bet that was also dragging that out when someone suggested x-ray machines in shoe shops might not be a great idea.

After Marie Curie dying and the radium girls cases that actually had some good science behind it
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