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'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

theguardian.com

201–210 of 411 posts

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#201
post #114
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another part to the analogy: we've all woken up to the fact that corporations re-engineered the food supply after World War II. They were hacking the human body. I think I didn't get this say in the year 2000, but I really get it now. Think about what your grandparents ate vs. what your parents ate (assuming you grew up in the U.S. and are in the 20's-30's age range. Anecdotally the effect seems to have been…

Could you expand on what you feel the goal of their hacking was/is?

I'd like to chime in:

I believe one of their goals was to lower testosterone in general population, to make for a meeker and more easily controlled population. This probably wasn't a 'fully evil' goal, since the horrors of WW2 were recent, and some of them thought that they could prevent that from happening again by engineering a less aggressive population.

From the onset of 20th century at least, it was known that testosterone is responsible for 'manly' characteristics (aggressiveness etc); in 1935 it was synthesized from cholesterol by Lavoslav Ruzicka. So, by the end of WW2 it was already well known that a) testosterone is what makes people aggressive and b) body needs cholesterol to synthezise testosterone. With this information in hand, it's easy to conclude that to get a less aggressive population, one should make them eat less saturated fat/cholesterol.

Enter Ancel Keys, a military-related dietologist (he created the ww2 K-rations, for example). Before mid 1950s, he was making rational scientific research into good/bad foods, and even published some material about the negative health effects of 'grain' ie carbs. But by the mid 1950s he made a full 180 and started attacking saturated fats and cholesterol as the cause of (especially heart-related) health problems. He started using bad science (selectively choosing countries for study to confirm his claim that it's high fat and not high carb diet that causes health issues), and using his pull to silence everyone claiming otherwise.

In 1960s/1970s he was joined by the Big Agro/Food who poured a lot of money into continued shifting of the blame from carbs onto fat, including silencing and ostracizing scientists and studies who dared to claim otherwise; this is the 'conspiracy' that we are familiar with, but I believe it started even earlier, with Ancel Keys, military, and 'powers that be'.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#202
The article makes a few ill considered assumptions:

That USA is a democracy (and that it thus makes sense to start influencing the election process). It isn't. Not in the sense that the opinions of the people influence the policies that are caried out. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-...

The other assumption is that Russia somehow interfered with the American election. There's no solid evidence such a thing has happened. https://consortiumnews.com/2017/09/29/russia-gates-shaky-fou...

Third, he sort of assumes that our minds haven't already been "hijacked", by other means than addictive social media and apps. We'll, how can we explain, that those that are really good at affecting our countrys political decisions (the Saudi and the Israeli lobby) gets no scolding for this, while our chosen nemesis (Russia) gets lot's of scolding for something there's no evidence they've done? Couldn't this oddity be explained by old school "brain washing": propaganda. ?. http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/americas-jews-are-driv...

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#203
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they also provide access to Wikipedia [etc] But let's be honest, most smartphone users spend their time confined in a limited number of domains: social media, games, shopping etc. In that sense, we can be called a bit zombie in the head.

If we're going to be totally honest, then first, let's call social media primarily talking to your friends and family . Which is one of the most deeply and fundamentally human things you can do. And it is also critical to doing anything together with other people. The Internet has lifted constraints of time and geography from communication - which is why you see people on IM in situations where, without the phone, th…

Social media is both 'talking to friends and family', and 'posturing in front of near-strangers'. The latter might also be a latent human thing, but overall I don't it contributes as much to wellbeing as the first.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#204

The article makes a few ill considered assumptions: That USA is a democracy (and that it thus makes sense to start influencing the election process). It isn't. Not in the sense that the opinions of the people influence the policies that are caried out. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-... The other assumption is that Russia somehow interfered with the American election. There's no solid evi…

The article is very long and doesn't say anything interesting, IMHO.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#205

If this is true Then it also presents a unique opportunity. I.e. There should be a very real and observable productivity boost from being able to ignore your phone and working on career building/family-relationship projects. If you can tear yourself from your phone for 3 Hours a day and work on career building projects, you should be able to get far ahead of others in your social circles who can't break the addiction…

Sazzy response. Way to ignore the problem.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#206

The article makes a few ill considered assumptions: That USA is a democracy (and that it thus makes sense to start influencing the election process). It isn't. Not in the sense that the opinions of the people influence the policies that are caried out. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-... The other assumption is that Russia somehow interfered with the American election. There's no solid evi…

It's an ongoing process and it's been happening for decades (propoganda, brain-washing). The population is always learning and always presents with threats to be countered. The internet was one such potential threat. It was potentially a democratic, free and open source of information. Now it's controlled by a few companies.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is (and probably always was) people with empty minds. And of course you think you’re in the other camp, don’t you? How cute.

The point is, smartphones are not magically holding people back, who would otherwise be creative and do cool stuff. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite, as even the constant stream of shit Internet content eventually exposes you to e.g. DIY tutorials in precisely your favourite area . Nevertheless, some people have less of intellectual lives than others, and (as GP argues and I agree with) whatever the reason, it'…

They (or, rather, the software they connect to) are holding me back from precisely that. If there was no social media, the novel I’m writing would have been done a year ago.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a (currently) flagged comment absolutely accurately notes, a major concern of the Kelloggs was matters of mental and spiritual hygiene, including concerted efforts (including surgery) to avert masturbation. Medical historian Howard Markel addresses this in his recent book The Kelloggs , with some relevant aspects mentioned in this book-tour interview at KALW, Santa Monica: [Dr. John Haarvey Kellogg] also was very…

Ok, so he had weird views on that topic, but how does that have anything to do with his views on food ?

Ideologically driven reasearch in which conclusions are assumed or asserted rather than proven empirically has a poor track record for truth discovery.

The Kelloggs' theories of nutition are fairly hit or miss. Corporatising the institution they created has not helped.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#209

This seems like a good excuse to plug Beeminder but I'll try to be at least slightly less self-promotional and point to our collection of all our competitors who offer commitment device apps of various kinds: http://blog.beeminder.com/competitors We call this the granddaddy of first-world problems.

> We call this the granddaddy of first-world problems. I think you're right, Dan. It seems like a pretty existential problem at this point. What is the alternative here? Is there such a thing as an ethical "news feed", and how would I make one ethical? (PS: HN: Beeminder is awesome and you should try it).

One way might be to update the feed exactly once a day, so people do not compulsively check for changes. Like daily newspapers.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#210
post #33

A short (8 minutes) and poignant Marshall McLuhan lecture on this topic from 1977: http://www.marshallmcluhanspeaks.com/lecture/1977-man-and-me...

Excellent. There were a few exceptionally aware and pertinant commentators in the early-, and even pre-computer age.

Alvin Toffler's Future Shock also has several quite striking observations.

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