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Asset prices are high across the board

economist.com

31–40 of 81 posts

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't! It's better to buy and hold and ride it out. Otherwise you tend to miss the gains on the other side. Decades of research by now has shown that buy-and-hold beats timing the market every time.

...beats trying to time the market... If you can time the market correctly, that is obviously the optimal strategy.

If you can time the market correctly, you don't need to get investing advice from HN.

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#32

Joe Kennedy supposedly said he avoided the stock crash of 1929 by getting out of the market when his shoeshiner started giving him stock tips. Multiple times recently I’ve been at restaurants recently overhearing people talk about how much money they’re going to make in Bitcoin. It’s hard to convey here, but the make-money-who-cares-how-it’s-magic came across every time in such a wow-this-is-definitely-a-bubble way.…

Mid 2000s was about flipping houses. Do we have seminars at Marriott courtsides pitching bitcoin yet?

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#33
post #17
post #10

Interesting to note that dollar adjusted the market has actually been going down for months. http://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/10/04/Photos/NS/MW...

Can you explain this a little more? I don't quite know what dollar adjusted means.

Perhaps easier to conceptualize in Europe indices. Imagine European stocks go up but so does the strength of the euro vs the dollar. You, as a US resident (ok presumably) wouldn't be realizing those stock gains on the top line numbers because when you sell the position and convert back to dollars, the worse FX rate erodes your returns.

When OP talks about dollar adjusted returns of S&P, an analogous mechanism is at work.

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#34
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain this a little more? I don't quite know what dollar adjusted means.

If I understand right, this is basically merging s&p 500 [1] and dollar value index [2]. The value of the dollar has been dropping all year, at a higher rate than the value of the s&p 500 has been going up. Basically, the market's dollar denominated value is going up, but dollars are becoming less valuable. This combines to mean that market value has actually down this year, not up. Perhaps op can correct me on anyth…

Yes, and as a European, this is very visible in my portfolio. S&P 500 ETF is the worst performing part of my savings portfolio, when nominated in euros. China, Nordics, rest of the Europe & emerging markets are all doing fine.

Of course, the falling dollar price benefits US exports in the future, so it could be a good time to invest in US, now that it has been performing less stellar compared to the rest of the world.

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#35
post #17
post #10

Interesting to note that dollar adjusted the market has actually been going down for months. http://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/10/04/Photos/NS/MW...

Can you explain this a little more? I don't quite know what dollar adjusted means.

The real value is the nominal value adjusted for the rate of inflation (using an agreed definition of inflation and against some agreed monetary base - see M0, M1... and other types of monies)

Inflation means the purchasing power of the unit of currency is reduced. iirc it was Keynes who noted that government financing can utilise the margin between real and nominal values, with the benefit of also maintaining animal spirits (bullishness/confidence) as the public sees only price. For economist perspectives: Paul Krugman's blog elaborates on this in a readable way. Mises.org provides one critique. David Harvey another. Dan Amerman provides an CFA/investor perspective (http://danielamerman.com/va/Dow36.html)

The graph linked to above could be viewed as a decline in real value of equities - or the value preserving market response to inflationary pressures (with some degree of non-market support)

The combination of inflation and tax rates is important to understanding the interplay between government, markets and the wider economy. Which is the dog and which the tail is a moot point. Not endorsing, and not by any means the last word, but David Graeber provides an alternative starting point before exploring further: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/oct/28/...

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#36
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't! It's better to buy and hold and ride it out. Otherwise you tend to miss the gains on the other side. Decades of research by now has shown that buy-and-hold beats timing the market every time.

...beats trying to time the market... If you can time the market correctly, that is obviously the optimal strategy.

Only barely (see "What if we could perfectly time the market?" in [0] which cites [1]), and it is the height of self-delusion for anyone to think he or she will time it correctly, when professionals fail to do so. Don't try!

[0] https://www.bogleheads.org/blog/bogleheads-principles-never-...

[1] https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/content/does...

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#37
post #13

"In investing, it is better to sell a year too early, than a day too late".

No it isn't! It's better to buy and hold and ride it out. Otherwise you tend to miss the gains on the other side. Decades of research by now has shown that buy-and-hold beats timing the market every time.

That entirely depends on your timeframe. If you are an older person at or near retirement and planning on using your investments to pay for your living expenses you are much better off going into cash and low risk investments like treasuries. If you plan on having investments for the next 40+ years your outlook is totally different, and so should be your trading strategy.

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't! It's better to buy and hold and ride it out. Otherwise you tend to miss the gains on the other side. Decades of research by now has shown that buy-and-hold beats timing the market every time.

That entirely depends on your timeframe. If you are an older person at or near retirement and planning on using your investments to pay for your living expenses you are much better off going into cash and low risk investments like treasuries. If you plan on having investments for the next 40+ years your outlook is totally different, and so should be your trading strategy.

That's entirely different from trying to time the market upturns and downturns. If you need less risk and more liquidity then you should adjust your stocks/bonds asset allocation to match your risk tolerance and life goals, but within each bucket you should buy low-cost diversified index funds and hold them.

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand right, this is basically merging s&p 500 [1] and dollar value index [2]. The value of the dollar has been dropping all year, at a higher rate than the value of the s&p 500 has been going up. Basically, the market's dollar denominated value is going up, but dollars are becoming less valuable. This combines to mean that market value has actually down this year, not up. Perhaps op can correct me on anyth…

Yes, and as a European, this is very visible in my portfolio. S&P 500 ETF is the worst performing part of my savings portfolio, when nominated in euros. China, Nordics, rest of the Europe & emerging markets are all doing fine. Of course, the falling dollar price benefits US exports in the future, so it could be a good time to invest in US, now that it has been performing less stellar compared to the rest of the world…

But you would certainly like to have some kind of explanation on why the dollar is so weak before calling this a good time to invest? Like - what exactly is going on over there?

The US economy seems to be less dependent on exports as other countries, and the fortunes of US (tech) companies seem to hinge on other things than exchange rates.

Re: Asset prices are high across the board

#40

Joe Kennedy supposedly said he avoided the stock crash of 1929 by getting out of the market when his shoeshiner started giving him stock tips. Multiple times recently I’ve been at restaurants recently overhearing people talk about how much money they’re going to make in Bitcoin. It’s hard to convey here, but the make-money-who-cares-how-it’s-magic came across every time in such a wow-this-is-definitely-a-bubble way.…

Mid 2000s was about flipping houses. Do we have seminars at Marriott courtsides pitching bitcoin yet?

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