Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber • Hacker News Board

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#151

Post by kelnos » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 3:01 AM UTC

realthings wrote: post #19

Get with the times! The way people consume music has radically changed. The music gold rush is over. The simple fact is people listen to music on YouTube and Spotify now. Music is also absurdly high in supply because everyone wants to be a musician. Guess what that does to the value? That's right, music is cheap because it isn't worth much. Whenever I see people complain about this, I just feel sorry for them. The wo…

Completely agreed. I get that it's difficult to look at things objectively when it's your paycheck on the chopping block, but that's really not the point.

I'm glad to be in a growing field that pays really well. But I'm also working to save a ton and invest wisely so that if my skills are suddenly not in demand anymore, I won't have to worry about being out on the street. I'm definitely lucky that a confluence of factors came into play that allow me to do this, but anyone and everyone should be thinking about how to hedge against employment issues down the line. That's just basic financial responsibility.

If you want to be a musician, you are already putting yourself into a difficult spot financially. If you're ok with that, more power to you... but you'd better figure out how to take care of your basic needs, at least, and you'd better have a plan for downturns since you're already living on thin margins.

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#152

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 3:33 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #130

WalterBright wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> abolishing money Communes have been tried, voluntary ones and forcible ones, over and over. They never work out. People just aren't wired up that way. > Star Trek is an imaginary utopia. You can always make things work when writing a script.

>Communes have been tried, voluntary ones and forcible ones, over and over. They never work out. People just aren't wired up that way. Communes from the 60's still exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hog_Farm

"Members have their own jobs and bank accounts,"

https://www.voanews.com/a/a-13-a-2001-08-07-25-hog/395182.ht...

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#153

Post by realthings » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 5:25 AM UTC

romwell wrote: post #145

vkou wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also goes to the engineers working on the services. $200,000-$300,000/year to a senior, even if the service itself is losing money (And when it goes bust, you can always find another job.)

I feel like this irony is horribly lost on about half of the commenters here. Creator's job is seen as worthless, but the deliveryman's job value is indisputable. And yet if Spotify were to pay its engineers scraps, I doubt the voices here would be as supportive. The only reason the engineers are paid as much is because the companies can't get away with paying less. And just because they can get away with paying musi…

Actually, the musicians don't carry the industry. Even if Taylor Swift died tomorrow, and all of her music was erased from history, the music industry wouldn't be threatened even slightly. There is a virtually endless supply of musicians.

Society hasn't failed either. Society is made up of individuals. If the individual wants to stream music instead of buying a CD, and if that means less money for the musician, then the only choice is to adapt as a musician or "get a job".

I say all of this as a musician myself. I realized all of this the hard way. Just about everything in the world that can be bought or sold is valued based on perception, which means anything can be worth millions tomorrow or squat. Nothing is permanent. We're all gamblers in a huge game of perceived value, and technology only makes it more crazy.

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#154

Post by joshuaheard » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 5:42 AM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #95

joshuaheard wrote: post #70

The guy wrote a song. It took him, what, a month? For that he earned $150,000? Annualized, that's almost $2 million. I don't see the problem here.

The problem is that writing a hit song is not something he can do every month. It's like finding a nugget of gold. It still has to fund the operation.

His pay probably lasts as long as that song was popular.

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#155

Post by jerrytsai » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 6:33 AM UTC

southphillyman wrote: post #39

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Santa's Super Sleigh"?

No but my user name is a big hint. Artist who grew up in South Philly 50-60 years ago and had a hit song so big he still lives off the royalties today.....

Is your grandfather Bobby Rydell?

Or maybe Fabian or Frankie Avalon?

I love this kind of challenge.

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#156

Post by Applejinx » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 10:40 AM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #53

Applejinx wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If even people reaching a truly stupidly huge number of people don't get even close to making a living (I get more than that off a few hundred people on Patreon for the work that I do), in a situation where those operating the streaming services are renting out entire floors of office buildings in Manhattan, your question is disingenuous. Just because some of us are eking out a sort of existence in the new era doesn'…

The problem is the middlemen and the way the revenue is distributed through them. Someone who produces and uploads their own video that reaches a stupidly huge number of people will make bank guaranteed, just like someone who is reaching their audience directly through Patreon. On average you should be able to get $5-$10 per 1000 YouTube video views if it is on your own monetized channel. So that 35 million views pro…

No, absolutely not. The power is with record labels and streaming services. You seem to be assuming that there's such a thing as a 'hit song' quality resident within the song, or a 'hit game' quality resident within the game, and that these are merely facilitated by the distribution channels: that's not how it works at all.

The hit things are a mechanism OF the distribution channel, which is how the 'hit' scales to those levels. If you go 'new methods' it only guarantees that you will never, ever have a hit thing. You might well have a culturally important or creatively valuable thing: they say the Velvet Underground spawned a thousand bands. But you simply don't reach the stupidly huge number of people unless you're part of the mechanism that's taking all the percentage out of that profit.

There's no such thing as that flattening of distribution, truly there isn't. There's no such potential. It's just tighter control of the channels by the record labels, media companies etc. and it's all middlemen, running the show. New media didn't make that better, it's substantially worse than it was.

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#157

Post by sfifs » Sat, Oct 07, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

darkdreams wrote: post #84

danjoc wrote: post #65

I have similar feelings. My gift generates millions for someone else. I take home above median income, but I'm not getting rich. I'm working toward a plan. I wonder what his plan is? It's interesting watching this comment section fill with bickering over what commenters think he deserves.

Seconded. I think the software industry is an example where the "creators" just get a salary.If you are lucky or an early stage employee, you may get some equity. Software that we write creates billions for corporations but we never get a share. Question: Why do musicians & "creative" people get royalties for what they do and not others? If value creation is the argument, I would argue we are also creating value. I a…

It's the risk tolerance intersecting with demand-supply. If you join a startup where you are willing to be underpaid in return for equity which could make you rich at a small probability, you're in a entertainment industry model.

However if you want a salary and comfortable living, you take a salary and don't get a shot at wealth. You could refuse to work on such terms but your company could persumably hire someone else who won't refuse since the supply of risk averse individuals significantly exceeds those who take risk..

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#158

Post by sebastianwolff » Sun, Oct 08, 2017, 6:52 AM UTC

Digital Music News is tabloid journalism. It's negligent in its research, and the technophobic clickbait articles' primary intent is to spread mirth and hysteria about the alleged evils of music tech companies. No sources, no citations.

But, for fun, let's break it down. 10 minutes of research:

Rodney Jerkins Prod represents 20%. BMI says that BMG represents their interests; HFA states that it's EMI. Who knows. For his 20%, they haven't collected mechanicals from Apple/Deezer/Amazon/Goove/Pandora/Tidal/SoundCloud/SiriusXM. I'm not sure about YouTube, Spotify, and the others, but it's likely that the same lack of collection applies.

BMI and other performance societies pay writers's shares (50%) directly to members. The same doesn't apply for other royalties.

The article also doesn't mention his label/publisher cut, which are likely astronomical. My thought? Royalties are paid out to someone who's negligent in their management, and doesn't pass on/report that income.

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#159

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 08, 2017, 6:42 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #80

briholt wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out writers weren't being paid for their songs, but were being paid for a portion of the massive markup on a plastic disk. Now that the disks are gone, the value of the song is laid bare. The same has largely become true for software. How many new Lotus's or Corels are being funded today?

Yup. The value of software has been driven literally to $0. Yet I still keep writing software :-)

[deleted]

Re: Royalties from Writing a Hit Song with Justin Bieber

#160

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 08, 2017, 6:48 PM UTC

excalibur wrote: post #6

In the absence of significant income from album sales, artists can make a respectable living through touring and merchandising. This path isn't going to work for songwriters. They need to find a different funding model. Perhaps bill artists by the hour? Probably a flat-rate contract for x dollars per song would be more feasible.

[deleted]