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After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

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281–290 of 346 posts

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#281
post #6

> She lit a home-rolled cigarette and, getting to work with a mattock, tried to ignore the weather. She had lately been telling herself that she had to stop taking these risks. They were more than an hour from the nearest hospital, and what if she had another heart attack? Yeah...she seems to be ignoring the heart-attack risk she is pumping into her lungs while she says that. I get that it's an addiction that is hard…

This is probably the last post I will make lest I be accused of spamming...and I am probably wasting my breath...but I want to put a human face on this. I am middle aged. I was strong and healthy and worked multiple jobs serving the community. I paid taxes and believed that if I needed help it would be there. I was ruined by unneeded and poorly done surgery I was scared into having and since then everything had rotte…

Thank you for posting all of these.

I am well off by most standards, and though I've made quite a few good decisions, there is no doubt that luck played, by far, the biggest part.

The one positive thing I have to say to you is this: I hear you, and quite a few others hear you too, though we may well be a minority. We know that the foolish, smug attitudes displayed by many are largely attributes of genetic and environmental history.

The only advise I can give you is straightforward: life will always be surprising, often in bad, but sometimes in good ways. It's virtually impossible to know what's coming up. So hang in there, if only to play the entire game that is, though unknown, before you.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton What the DNC did in last year's primary was shameful, but... > leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump) Laughs...he never championed their cause. He told them all their problems were because of minorities and that he'd return the country to a time of bigotr…

> Laughs...he never championed their cause. This stance is part of the problem. https://www.google.com/search?q=bring+jobs+back+trump+youtub... https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+coal+jobs+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+carrier+jobs+youtube He promised the disadvantaged he'd get their jobs back from Mexico and China, he promised to bring coal jobs back. Whether he did those things or not doesn't mat…

> He promised the disadvantaged he'd get their jobs back from Mexico and China

All candidates promised jobs. Trump was promising jobs that either no longer really exist due to automation or are soon to be automated out of existence. Clinton and Sanders promised more forward-looking jobs without the racist overtones. It was obvious to anyone not watching Fox News which plan would be better for poor people in this country. When I said he never championed their cause, I meant he never championed the cause of the poor over the rich. He championed the cause of the white over the minority and immigrant. Sanders and Clinton were put forth visions to help the poor that were far more compelling. The problem is that those visions included black people and immigrants, so large swaths of the country dismissed them.

> I blame people who care more about illegal immigrants than the disenfranchised citizens suffering in poverty in the US

Illegal immigrants are human beings too and deserve every bit the consideration that citizens do. The same logic that you use to dismiss illegal immigrants can be used to dismiss poor people in fly-over states...they were born in poverty across some arbitrarily-drawn line and what moral obligation do we have to care for them? Well, if you believe that you have a moral obligation to care for one group, you have a moral obligation to care for the other as well. Arbitrary lines drawn on a map, whether delineating states or countries, don't change that.

> I blame urban liberals who have no comprehension of the plight the poor in the US are suffering through

You mean those same liberals that mostly voted for Sanders in the primary and Clinton in the general? Both choices were demonstrably in the interest of the poor people described in this piece. Those liberals you're blaming may not have experienced that sort of poverty (however some of us did...my mom was on welfare until I was 8 years old), but they absolutely have the interests of the poor in mind when they vote.

> I blame upper management of the Democratic Party

No arguments there...the DNC elites absolutely screwed over the country believing that no one could lose to Trump and that the demographics of this country had permanently shifted. They got their comeuppance but we're all suffering the consequences.

> Hillary Clinton is nowhere to be found after her crushing defeat

She did write a book about the election, but I think the election really pointed out just how damaging and counterproductive she and her crony wing of the Democratic party have been to progressive causes. That she's now out of the spotlight speaks more to being marginalized by those with actual elected office (like Sanders and Warren...none of them are asking her for her help) than it does to her lack of interest in trying to fix things. Too much of the country, including Democrats, hates her right now. I think there's almost universal agreement that we'd all like her to step away from public life and leave the future of this country to a new generation of politicians.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself, I care deeply about the less fortunate - I just don't think that the social safety net is well designed or cost effective and I think pouring more money into it will just incentivize preying on the people caught in the net. I think there are solid ways to help people but that usually means investment in them, rather than increased dependence on the system. I'd gladly chip in for this lady to get a…

I considered myself poor up until a couple years ago. The biggest kick in the balls each year was the vehicle inspection. If you live in a place without public transit you can't just go without a car. So I would be paying thousands of dollars to replace sensors that did little to improve the actually functionality of the car all in the name of getting rid of that check engine light. Most of the time I couldn't afford…

Could you explain more about this vehicle inspection? I've never had a required inspection but I haven't driven that much either.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. http://heyjackass.com/ Certainly not millions, but that's not something I'd be proud of. Nowhere in New Hampshire do people say "don't worry, its just certain parts that have all the violence."

I mean, yes, murder is bad - but are the 58 people dead during September random strangers who got shot? Or is this the result of mostly gang/organized crime violence? You're not likely to die in a car crash if you don't drive a car.

> You're not likely to die in a car crash if you don't drive a car.

Unless you're collateral damage.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democratic Party Presidential candidate in the last election openly boasted about plans to "put the coal companies out of business" after she would be elected, so it's not entirely a straw man to say that there are people who would kill coal at a rate faster than what competition would achieve.

Yes, it's a strawman. Coal's present predicament has exactly nothing to do with political disfavor. Coal remains heavily subsidized [1], under-regulated [2], and enjoys entrenched support at all levels of government. And yet it still can't compete with newer more efficient alternatives. Note that the Trump administration is now pushing to give coal massive new subsidies in the form of forced extra payments to coal-fi…

There's also the factor that those coal jobs are GONE. Even with increased demand if the Trump Administration is able to really push that through, automation and changes in mining mean that all those jobs as coal miners aren't coming back, and the people who were told that they are coming back were simply lied to.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all our focus on the indirect costs in coal, there seems to be willful ignorance about the environmental impact of Chinese solar panels. Sure, you can get solar panels from countries with more environmental oversight but that's going to impact the payoff curve. It's a shame that the focus is on conservation - energy abundance is better for humanity.

Human civilization has always made concessions in the name of progress, and as we've progressed, the concessions we're willing to make have changed. There certainly are environmental (and human) costs associated with producing electricity from solar energy, but the costs between that and coal production and combustion are not exactly the same. I hope there will be a day when the production of conventional PV will be…

but the costs between that and coal production and combustion are not exactly the same.

And what are they in favor of? Coal? Solar?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#287
post #80

I cannot find it in my heart to admire the people who comment here proscriptively, without any attempt to signal empathy. Its understood few of us (myself included) will be doing anything to ameliorate this situation, and that empathy signalling is at best chest beating, but I still find the lack of compassion in the responses chilling. Yes, not smoking would reduce health risks and spend. so what? If you haven't tri…

It seems that you have an issue with beliefs that you assume people have, rather than a literal reading of what they stated. People generally interpret things much more negatively over text channels like email, than hearing the same thing in person, so I'd be cautious of such a negative take.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#288
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but I think there's a lot of people see the kind of people in the article as the opposition to progressive social issues like #BLM, acceptance of immigrants and the very same socialist policies that they survive off of and need to be expanded if these people are to see their lot in life improve. Rural communities overwhelmingly voted for Trump and they form the core of the Fox News constitu…

Is "acceptance of immigrants" really a progressive social issue, or is it a pro-business economic issue with excellent marketing? In my opinion it's sort of ironic to promote that and socialism in the same sentence. Bernie Sanders in particular has been opposed to increased immigration in the past. I imagine he's not as vocal about that anymore because it's no longer politically viable.

In the same way it's a progressive social issue to support universal healthcare, I'd say it's a progressive issue to accept refugees and other immigrants trying to make better lives for themselves.

The common thread is empathy and a desire to help those less fortunate.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but I think there's a lot of people see the kind of people in the article as the opposition to progressive social issues like #BLM, acceptance of immigrants and the very same socialist policies that they survive off of and need to be expanded if these people are to see their lot in life improve. Rural communities overwhelmingly voted for Trump and they form the core of the Fox News constitu…

> You'd probably see a lot more compassion among big-city liberals if these communities had embraced Bernie Sanders' agenda which would have redistributed a lot of wealth into their communities. Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton, leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump). I don't fault most Tr…

> "Undocumented immigrants" are not citizens being oppressed

They're not citizens being oppressed, but they are human beings being oppressed. They're often fleeing war-torn countries and, by definition, have taken a proactive action to try to escape their circumstances and the poverty that they were born into. Your lack of compassion for them whilst simultaneously descrying people's lack of compassion for similarly impoverished groups of citizens is hypocritical and borders on sociopathic. Citizenship and race are not a distinctions that have any moral standing. Suffering is suffering and either we have an moral obligation to help or we don't.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#290
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I considered myself poor up until a couple years ago. The biggest kick in the balls each year was the vehicle inspection. If you live in a place without public transit you can't just go without a car. So I would be paying thousands of dollars to replace sensors that did little to improve the actually functionality of the car all in the name of getting rid of that check engine light. Most of the time I couldn't afford…

Could you explain more about this vehicle inspection? I've never had a required inspection but I haven't driven that much either.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smog

Some states (mostly costal states) have rules that vehicles have to be inspected regularly. Some states inspect vehicles for safety reasons, other states inspect vehicles for emissions compliance, and a few states look for both.

It's well intentioned, but the checks leave something to be desired. In some states, a check engine light is an automatic fail regardless of whether or not the rest of the car is okay to drive. As the parent comment mentioned, it can be really expensive to fix check engine lights.

I have a car hobby and one guy I know spent like 30 hours diagnosing / repairing his 2000 Honda minivan to fix the check engine light. He tried to get a waiver, his car was producing a legal amount of emissions, but he couldn't get the check engine light to clear until he replaced a fuel pressure regulator - it's a total crock of crap. He's an older guy who only used the van to pick up his grandkids after school.

He couldn't get the minivan certified, so he had to pick up his kids in his pre-emissions car or else run the risk of a ticket he couldn't afford.

In this case, the law coerced him to drive kids in a car without seat belts or any emissions equipment than a safe car with a check engine light. IMO the laws are total failures.

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