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After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

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Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#211

Post by ForHackernews »

analog31 wrote: post #199
reaperducer wrote: post #70

Not sure why this is an article. This is just normal life in many parts of rural America from Pennsylvania to Washington to Arizona. When I lived in West Virginia, I did note that the Washington Post had a weird fascination with the place. Whenever things got slow, you could expect some big exposé about what a bunch of uneducated, dirty bumpkins we were. WaPo even once held a contest to come up with a new slogan for…

One of the narratives of the last election was that the "elites" and our newspapers were oblivious to conditions facing working folks in the interior states. It was probably a false accusation, but it helped fuel a wave of self loathing that persists today. (A friend of mine blasted the NY Times for ignoring the Midwest on the same day that they published a lengthy story about Flint MI). Yet, when someone does write…

It might help if they hired local journalists or republished stories from local media sources.

It's pretty ridiculous reading articles from coastal media that covers other parts of America as though it were a strange, foreign land, full of unfamiliar customs.

Or maybe that really is how the NY/DC/SF/LA ruling class feels?

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#212

Post by sctb »

grzm wrote: post #159
Diederich wrote: post #124

Once again, I'm probably breaking the rules. Consider this person: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hestipod > I made an account just to comment on this issue after lurking for a long time but it's surely just another pointless action because it's the same story over and over. Empathy is not common. Three (at this time) comments that seem to be very relevant to this topic and discussion, yet all [dead]. > Most…

If the comments are [dead] but not [flagged][dead], the account is banned. If a past commenter has been egregious enough, the mods will ban not only the main account but also put in some checks to prevent a user from creating new accounts to otherwise circumvent the ban--comments from such new accounts are also marked [dead]. As others have pointed out, if the comments are worthwhile, they can be vouched. There are d…

> If the comments are [dead] but not [flagged][dead], the account is banned.

That's not quite right. These comments were killed by anti-spam software. When this happens to legitimate accounts we rely on the community to vouch for them or email us at hn@ycombinator.com.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#213

Post by rbanffy »

alexanderstears wrote: post #186
rbanffy wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to know what I would do to make these lives better, it'd be campaigning for universal basic income. Unfortunately, that would be labeled "socialism" and made political suicide in seconds. An alternative would be to heavily subsidize housing, food, gas, healthcare, medicine and do that disguised as an attempt to bootstrap a local self-sufficient economy. It'd actually be a lot more socialist than UBI but p…

Unfortunately, that would be labeled "socialism" and made political suicide in seconds. If you think that's true then it is, right? I have dissident rightist view points. I hang out with dissident rightists. I've never once heard them say that UBI is worse than the status quo, and I think pairing UBI with reduced low-skill immigration is something 95% of them could get behind. Sure, the Paul Ryans and Pelosis of the…

Most of my right wing friends are the Ayn Rand kind and are deeply offended by the idea of paying other people to live.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#214

Post by curun1r »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #189
curun1r wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but I think there's a lot of people see the kind of people in the article as the opposition to progressive social issues like #BLM, acceptance of immigrants and the very same socialist policies that they survive off of and need to be expanded if these people are to see their lot in life improve. Rural communities overwhelmingly voted for Trump and they form the core of the Fox News constitu…

> You'd probably see a lot more compassion among big-city liberals if these communities had embraced Bernie Sanders' agenda which would have redistributed a lot of wealth into their communities. Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton, leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump). I don't fault most Tr…

> Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton

What the DNC did in last year's primary was shameful, but...

> leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump)

Laughs...he never championed their cause. He told them all their problems were because of minorities and that he'd return the country to a time of bigotry and racism where things would magically be better because they were white. He's since taken the office of The President and used it to try to screw over poor whites in every way imaginable and tried to placate them by making it even worse for minorities. It's hard to blame under-educated people for falling for Fox News propaganda, but you still can't deny their complicity in enabling their own situation. What they did in the general election to defeat Hilary they could have done in the Primary to support Bernie. They didn't.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#215

Post by refurb »

knz wrote: post #79
refurb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disability is often done on a percentage basis. If you're completely unable to work you get 100%. If you can't stand for a long time, but can sit and work, you might get 30% disability. Even at 100% it's not a lot of money, but I've heard it's enough to exist.

> but I've heard it's enough to exist. How does health insurance/care work for these people? Do you automatically qualify for the government programs (MA?) if you are even partially disabled?

If you receive SSI disability payments you qualify for Medicare even if you're not 65. However, you don't qualify until 2 years after you're eligible. People typically will go on Medicaid since they can't work and their low (or non-existent) income qualifies them for Medicaid.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#216

Post by refurb »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #180
whipoodle wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had, and we don't give a shit about people who can't afford to live. We say "get a job", and we just don't care.

>>We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had The empirical evidence would suggest the opposite: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv... https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv...

I was going to say. Safety net as a percentage of gov't spending has only increased. That would suggest we're not dismantling anything.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#217

Post by dsfyu404ed »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #96
jccalhoun wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always kind of amazed that stories about how much it sucks to be poor are "news" and not common knowledge. I remember when Ehrenreich's Nickle and Dimed came out and it got all this press. I was dumbfounded. People needed a book to let them know that it is hard to survive on a minimum wage job?

I forget the name of the book, but after reading Ehrenreich's book, I read one by a college-aged kid who went from literally having no money to having some sort of relatively good job. It wasn't particularly well written, but it got a fair amount of press - because it reaffirmed people's "gumption and bootstraps" American philosophy, where hard work is the solution to everything, regardless of context or circumstance…

>Of course a white 20 year old can get hired. Of course he has the time to walk an hour to his job and work there for 12 hours since he has no children or elderly relatives to take care of. Of course he can move furniture, since he's young and healthy. Of course he can get a job without a criminal record.

Is it unreasonable to expect this level of effort out of any 20yo who's options are "be poor" or do this?

Not being white and having a criminal record aren't going to stop you from making ends meet. They just make it harder to proceed upward after that point.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#218

Post by hestipod »

24gttghh wrote: post #6

> She lit a home-rolled cigarette and, getting to work with a mattock, tried to ignore the weather. She had lately been telling herself that she had to stop taking these risks. They were more than an hour from the nearest hospital, and what if she had another heart attack? Yeah...she seems to be ignoring the heart-attack risk she is pumping into her lungs while she says that. I get that it's an addiction that is hard…

This is probably the last post I will make lest I be accused of spamming...and I am probably wasting my breath...but I want to put a human face on this.

I am middle aged. I was strong and healthy and worked multiple jobs serving the community. I paid taxes and believed that if I needed help it would be there. I was ruined by unneeded and poorly done surgery I was scared into having and since then everything had rotted and faded as systems failed me and people turned on me. I live in severe pain daily with no healthcare beyond an income based primary care clinic for once or twice a year nonsense. I live trapped in the middle of nowhere with no public transport with the last people who will offer a bed and they did so to lord it over others and resent me daily. My meager partial pension covers my food and medication and the big expenses like a CT scan or surgery I have put off for years are ignored. I eat Walmart branded canned goods and cheap fresh stuff. I don't even have a computer anymore as mine and the backup from when I had a life gave up. Once someone donated an old one to me but it had issues and cost too much to fix. I use an external HD on a borrowed laptop I have irregular access to just to get online and have some exposure to the outside world. BTW the internet here is 1mpbs and irregular so add that to the mess. Imagine thinking daily of ending your life or deciding to run away to a cheaper place knowing it will be a dead end too sooner than later but you have no other hopes.

Now...if you read all that. Imagine living that way. With nothing but scraps. Imagine seeing no hope. Imagine years go by losing more and more. Now imagine how buying some junk food or a beer or a lottery ticket or some other "waste of money" brings you just a tiny little escape or joy or moment to not suffer and hate everything. Imagine when you DO that people jump all over you judging you and making you feel worse. I don't know if you even can truly imagine living like that...but I hope you do and reconsider. We are human beings and not abstract objects. We want lives as much as you do. Please consider this next time you encounter this topic or someone you are put off by...despite what you probably think it could be you next.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#219

Post by hallalex831 »

riot504 wrote: post #125
mrskitch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to this sentiment, but you've got take into account the whole story: - Failing health, already has nearly died. - No safety net. - Risks life every time this voyage is made. - Doesn't have access to many resources. Here you have someone who doesn't have (what appears to be) working plumbing. Doesn't even have a _kitchen_ (just a hot pad). No assets or finances to speak of. Likely no support network. On t…

I view smoking as a kind of break from life. It has a calming effect. Many people smoked during my deployments to Iraq for the same reason - it calms you and allows a simple break otherwise not found. I don't smoke as the smell gives me a terrible headache but I understand the reasoning - particularly when life is hard.

Smoking does not actually have calming effects. It only relieves the feeling of withdrawal cause by smoking in the first place.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#220

Post by balance_factor »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #180
whipoodle wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had, and we don't give a shit about people who can't afford to live. We say "get a job", and we just don't care.

>>We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had The empirical evidence would suggest the opposite: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv... https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv...

The percentage going to military spending out of total government spending is only as small as it is on the chart if it's decided to try to have a very narrow view of what constitutes military spending, but a broad view of what can fit in other categories. If you include not just DoD spending, but DoD retiree and healthcare, veteran's benefits, interest on the debt of previous military spending, the defense-oriented outlays of the DoE, NASA, Homeland Security, the State Department and the intelligence agencies, then the defense percentage will be larger, and other portions smaller, including what is put under entitlement programs from fromer military/intelligence etc. getting retirement and health benefits.
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