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Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

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Re: Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

#171

Post by ben-coman »

igouy wrote: post #84
IshKebab wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah maybe if Pharo was just a Smalltalk IDE, but apparently it is a distinct language.

More like a distinct Smalltalk language implementation. For decades, different Smalltalk language implementations have introduced novel things while still being recognizably implementations of Smalltalk. I haven't been able to find a clear statement of language differences between Pharo and other Smalltalks. The closest thing I've come across is this statement of intent: "We want to stress the fact that Pharo will ce…

I came to Pharo after the fork from Squeak. What I have picked up is that prior to the fork, there was significant tension between those that wanted to maintain backward compatibility and those that wanted to move the language forward. The latter group forked Pharo and that statement was Pharo seems to have be a response to their previous repression. In practice it hasn't yet diverged greatly.

However one novel thing Pharo has added is Slots... http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.653...

Re: Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

#173

Post by gnaritas »

vikiomega9 wrote: post #163
gnaritas wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto, but that one is terribly wrong.

Mind telling me why and pointing me to a correct resource?

Well look at it; it says Java derives solely from C++, that's not remotely true. It's simplistic and misleading, here's some better ones...

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b9/45/71/b9457106d7a5d602a2923597d...

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/250a-fall-2005/docs/Compu...

Re: Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

#174

Post by vikiomega9 »

gnaritas wrote: post #173
vikiomega9 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind telling me why and pointing me to a correct resource?

Well look at it; it says Java derives solely from C++, that's not remotely true. It's simplistic and misleading, here's some better ones... https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b9/45/71/b9457106d7a5d602a2923597d... https://ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/250a-fall-2005/docs/Compu...

> it says Java derives solely from C++, that's not remotely true

Not really, I just assumed the one I posted was trying to highlight syntax similarity. The ones you posted are just as terse, there's no way I can figure out if the Lisp arrow to Java in your first link is something about the type system or how it handles reference or the like

Re: Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

#175

Post by bulutsuzku »

nobleach wrote: post #50
edmundhuber wrote: post #5

Is there a snippet of example code to look at? I browsed the pharo.org website, but couldn't find an example to give me a taste. I even tried googling "pharo example" and with a brief look at the results didn't find an example. Today, there are hundreds of programming languages competing for attention. It is in your interest to put an example front and center of why one should spend time looking into yet another prog…

I always find LearnXinYminutes to be a cool "quick look" at a language syntax: https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/smalltalk/

The real experience is using the tools in the image for a couple of days... only then you'll have eureka moment

Re: Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

#176

Post by louiscyphre »

flavio81 wrote: post #39

>Smalltalk has the cleanest, purest implementation of object-oriented concepts; not even Java, Ruby, nor CLOS can lay claim to that. I'll take "powerful" versus "cleanest and purest" any day, thank you very much. Sorry but i'm staying with CLOS whenever i want to do object-oriented programming without feeling limited. The author is on a pro-Smalltalk crusade (which I find just fine, Smalltalk is a great lang, and in…

Sorry, but the author has never derided Clojure and Racket. Common Lisp, yes, but not Clojure and Racket. He actually likes Scheme.

He has factually pointed out that most people are turned off by Lisp syntax. This is not an insult, simply a statement of fact.

Re: Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

#177

Post by 0x445442 »

stcredzero wrote: post #82
theamk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That image environment sounds scary to me. I used to do a lot of hardware development, and what I love most about software is that you can always restart from the clean plate (by restarting the program) and/or undo your previous work (with version control). From what I understand, none of this applies to Smalltalk. You always modify code on the fly, so you may end up with properties which exists, but no current code…

what I love most about software is that you can always restart from the clean plate (by restarting the program) and/or undo your previous work (with version control). That's what I loved best about Smalltalk. You could just hard quit out of the image, then go back to the Change Log and replay all but the last few changes. If you save off an image every day or so, you're always back in minutes, no matter how dangerous…

This is a great insight but when I read things like this it reminds me the Smalltalk advocates need to do a better job adressing the concerns of the broader development community. It seems like they spend too much time addressing things that aren't concerns and not enough time on things that are.

Re: Pharo, the Modern Smalltalk

#178

Post by Tepix »

louiscyphre wrote: post #172
Tepix wrote: post #6

If you want to get into Pharo, there's a MOOC by France Université Numérique starting October 16th: http://files.pharo.org/mooc/

You gave the wrong URL. See https://www.fun-mooc.fr/courses/course-v1:inria+41010+sessio...

"Wrong"? That URL is linked from the page I posted. Click on "France Université Numérique".
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