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iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

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Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#241

Post by yoz-y »

I very much like the new system, I usually disable wifi either when it is too flaky or when I need to test something with an external network. Before when I forgot to put it back on my gps location would be slow and drain the battery, not everything is good. I do not use hotspots as my LTE is usually faster and more reliable (not to mention more secure).

However. It seems that there is a clear divide on how this button should work, and this usually means that there should be an option to set the behavior. Apple hates settings but I do believe that they will do something about this in a few releases.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#242

Post by misnome »

Terretta wrote: post #6

> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…

> No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan

This. I read this EFF list of "Terrible things" and thought "neat!" for every single one of these items.

The nearly 100% use cases for me turning wifi 'off' is because whatever it's connected to is slow/unresponsive, or some really annoying auto-connection to a pay-wifi in the location I'm currently in. My cell connection is normally good, so sometimes it's days before I notice, or when I get a message telling me that I've used up my allowance, or try to connect to the hotspot/talk to other devices at home.

With iOS 11, without reading these complaints, I'd probably never have noticed that this problem had silently solved itself and stopped annoying me.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#243

Post by jaclaz »

amigoingtodie wrote: post #239
Terretta wrote: post #6

> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…

So, is this a US only feature? Is excess data usage severely penalized financially in other countries?

>Is excess data usage severely penalized financially in other countries?

I believe it depends on ISP and on specific plan.

My mom has an iPad with a limited to 3 Gb/month dataplan (Italy), a couple of times she managed to go beyond the limit (due to some updates she did when not Wi-Fi connected), since it is a sort of pre-paid account, what happened was that the device became slow as molasses, as bandwidth was reduced to the speed of an analogic modem or something like that.

She still had connection, but to access a web page it took like 3 minutes.

On the other hand, she changed phone from a "normal" phone to a "smart" Android one (she was totally unaware of this and didn't realize that the cellular data was on) but her SIM (also pre-paid) did have an on-demand dataplan (never used before on the old phone), very, very costly and she managed to burn 30 out of 50 € of credit in a couple days (without using the internet at all, just through the "pings" (or whatever) the Android did in background).

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#244

Post by KozmoNau7 »

zaroth wrote: post #173
cassowary wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hidden feature isn't communicated. I don't know why features are going to do something weird if I short click vs long click. There's simply no communication. Maybe some shadow (3D) effect on something which you can 3D touch would make a huge difference. (It's probably ugly, but the feature itself is ugly, so you'd expect the UI should reflect that.) A right click menu was considered a hidden feature by Apple in the…

My thought was the WiFi icon should turn into a progress indicator to show that its snoozing, maybe like how apps show they are installing by graying it out in a circular sweep.

Grey out the icon, and add a "zzz" indicator to it?

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#245

Post by KozmoNau7 »

MBCook wrote: post #15
codefined wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change would be absolutely fine to me if it were communicated to the user in any way whatsoever . The fact that I can upgrade and have no idea the behaviour unless I happen to read an EFF blogpost in the few hours it appears on HN isn't acceptable. Note how they even use privacy as one of the main (at least, in my opinion) selling point for Apple devices[0] ("Every Apple product is designed from the ground up to…

It IS communicated. If you just pull up control center and tap the button is says “Disconnected from ‘WiFiNetwork’”. If you expand the panel with 3D Touch or a long press under the WiFi icon it either says WiFiName or Not Connected. On the other hand the cellular radio says Off if you toggle it. This isn’t completely hidden. The information is there. And I agree with the other posters that this is a far better settin…

"At this point I’m not sure there’s a need for normal users to actually turn off Wi-Fi"

To preserve battery. I don't know about iPhones, but on my Android phone, Wi-Fi is certainly the largest battery hog, if I leave Wi-Fi location scanning on.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#246

Post by KozmoNau7 »

djrogers wrote: post #86
Nition wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having WiFi greatly increases the battery drain on my iPhone 5C, so I always turn it off when I'm not using it. I'm not using the phone all the time so there are long periods where it doesn't need to be on, but I still want to receive messages etc (and hence can't use Airplane mode). Edit: I originally said that having wifi on "at least doubles" the power drain on my phone but since I haven't actually taken hard stat…

The WiFi radio uses less power than the LTE one, so if you’re in range of WiFi you save battery by leaving it on.

Not on my Android phone, a Motorola Moto X Play. Wifi is by far the largest battery hog.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#247

Post by gldnspud »

lumisota wrote: post #228
golangnews wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use 3D touch to turn off wifi. According to Apple you have go into settings to do so. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208086 The problems with this change are: It is surprising - grey buttons usually mean disabled permanently, not disabled except for some uses or for some indeterminate length of time. It changes established behaviour without a clear warning to the user. It is inconsistent - disabling blue…

You can 3D Touch the Settings icon to jump to the WiFi settings.

Only if you are using a phone with a 3D Touch sensor, which the SE does not contain.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#248

Post by cup-of-tea »

misnome wrote: post #242
Terretta wrote: post #6

> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…

> No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan This. I read this EFF list of "Terrible things" and thought "neat!" for every single one of these items. The nearly 100% use cases for me turning wifi 'off' is because whatever it's connected to is slow/unresponsi…

> This. I read this EFF list of "Terrible things" and thought "neat!" for every single one of these items.

That's because you own multiple Apple devices and feel the need to staunchly defend your purchases.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#249

Post by abricot »

amigoingtodie wrote: post #239
Terretta wrote: post #6

> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…

So, is this a US only feature? Is excess data usage severely penalized financially in other countries?

In Denmark, what happens when you reach the limit (on private plans[1]) is that your speed is limited to something between 64-256kbit/sec depending on the provider. You will never be financially penalized for going over.

What is also true, however, is that most basic plans include between 10 and 20 GB of data. You have a really bad plan if you only get 3 GB.

[1]The rules are a bit different for company plans.

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