Even if you are the fabled user who would turn your radios off and cripple your phone just to decrease your attack surface... like you’re walking into enemy territory... Wouldn’t you just use airplane mode?
iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
61–70 of 342 posts
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
> resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi The way I've run every smartphone I've owned is to turn off mobile data, WiFi, and Bluetooth and only turn them on as and when I need them. I prefer it to work that way. The way this works in iOS 11 is now inconsistent and confusing. I can turn mobile data on and off via Control Centre. But, while I can turn WiFi on in Control Centre, I…
> The way I've run every smartphone I've owned is to turn off mobile data, WiFi, and Bluetooth and only turn them on as and when I need them Okay, but you have to accept that this is a ridiculously small minority use case.
For the record that's how I do it too. Saves lots of battery and I'm not actively using the phone that frequently.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#63As opposed to Google's dark patterns that make maps unusable with location tracking off.
Google Maps is perfectly usable with location turned off. I often use it this way just to stretch the battery.
He means location tracking, not location. If you turn off location tracking in settings, maps will keep bugging you. Even though it just needs location at that time and it is enabled, but you must allow Google to create a fucking timeline of you all the time otherwise maps will keep nagging you.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
This change would be absolutely fine to me if it were communicated to the user in any way whatsoever . The fact that I can upgrade and have no idea the behaviour unless I happen to read an EFF blogpost in the few hours it appears on HN isn't acceptable. Note how they even use privacy as one of the main (at least, in my opinion) selling point for Apple devices[0] ("Every Apple product is designed from the ground up to…
It IS communicated. If you just pull up control center and tap the button is says “Disconnected from ‘WiFiNetwork’”. If you expand the panel with 3D Touch or a long press under the WiFi icon it either says WiFiName or Not Connected. On the other hand the cellular radio says Off if you toggle it. This isn’t completely hidden. The information is there. And I agree with the other posters that this is a far better settin…
>At this point I’m not sure there’s a need for normal users to actually turn off Wi-Fi. The only real case would be something like airplane mode which already has its own setting.
I ran into a use case for turning off wifi the other day. My ISP was having problems and the wifi network could not reach the internet. Turning off wifi saved me the trouble of forgetting my wifi network, and then looking up / typing in the password when I rejoined.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#65Any software switch is liable to be compromised. If you need real certainty, put the device in a faraday sock.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#66> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…
No. It’s not.
I want to turn it off.
The fact that this is front-page on HN means something.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#67All they had to do was implement it to cycle between three states: on, off-temporarily, and actually off. Or label the damned things. But no, they fundamentally changed how an important UI widget worked with no obvious indication that anything is different.
This decision seems so fundamentally "anti-Apple". What happened to "it just works"? Heck, they could have even promoted a third option as being super innovative (not like it is, but marketing "Now with 'WiFi Safe Sleep!' or something like that would have been the old Apple way).
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#68When I tap the WiFi or BY icons after a 3D Touch in either it says ‘not connected’ - it’s doesnt say off. That’s pretty self explanatory. When they’re off they are crossed out - also self explanatory.
The only real problem here is that this could have been explained to the user on first use.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#69In general, iOS isn’t very friendly to users who favour 3G/4G over WiFi. I’ve got unlimited data on my LTE plan but very shaky WiFi at home. I can’t start an iCloud backup without WiFi and can’t download apps or updates over a certain size. And now WiFi miraculously turns itself back on after I turn it off in Control Center (as I’ve done for some time). If I want it off I’ve got to dig through Settings. Changing defa…
Sadly the default assumption in IT these days is "users are dumb sheep". Its not just Apple or Google, MS is doing it as well, and I see more and more of it in the FOSS world.
Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
It IS communicated. If you just pull up control center and tap the button is says “Disconnected from ‘WiFiNetwork’”. If you expand the panel with 3D Touch or a long press under the WiFi icon it either says WiFiName or Not Connected. On the other hand the cellular radio says Off if you toggle it. This isn’t completely hidden. The information is there. And I agree with the other posters that this is a far better settin…
This is not communicated and is completely bogus, do you expect users to "expand" the panel and read carefully the small text under which says "Not connected" and map it to, "hey this is me Apple, royally screwing with you, even though you wanted to turn off Wifi, and you just did that, I won't turn it off, I am gonna lie to you and keep eating your battery till your phone die" That's exactly what happened to me when…
You don't have to expand the panel or 3d touch or anything.
I'll admit that this behavior is what I want 99% of the time, so it also doesn't bother me.