Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases • Hacker News Board

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#21

Post by tyingq » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 9:44 PM UTC

dtauzell wrote: post #17

tyingq wrote: post #14

Too little, too late for Oracle I think. No matter how good the product is, it won't be a first class supported thing at AWS, Azure, or Google's cloud. Eventually, that will drain off their customer base. If whatever the big 3 cloud providers are selling as a database is "good enough", then "better" won't be enough to keep Oracle's current position in the market.

Oracle has a lot of "legacy" customers who have a lot invested in their existing Oracle infrastructure. Oracle wants to migrate these customers to their cloud. For "Enterprise" I see Oracle's biggest competitor being Azure.

Yes...I agree. I don't think this is a fast death. But it is similar to the position all the RISC Unix vendors were in once X64 came out. Took a decade, but that was the death knell.

This one might be longer, say 15 or 20 years...but it's coming.

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#22

Post by tyingq » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

mayank wrote: post #15

tyingq wrote: post #14

Too little, too late for Oracle I think. No matter how good the product is, it won't be a first class supported thing at AWS, Azure, or Google's cloud. Eventually, that will drain off their customer base. If whatever the big 3 cloud providers are selling as a database is "good enough", then "better" won't be enough to keep Oracle's current position in the market.

Oracle is also building their own public cloud: https://cloud.oracle.com

Sure, but their non database features probably aren't in the same league as the top 3.

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#23

Post by zzzcpan » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:14 PM UTC

Wouldn't a much bigger deal be distributed part of the Oracle database in the cloud, not ML? Because turning a feature rich RDBMS into a decent distributed database is not really possible. You either have to sacrifice consistency, which by the looks of it is what Oracle is thinking to do [1], or you have to sacrifice both performance and availability. And there are already cheap not CAP consistent RDBMSs as services in the cloud. It's just hard to imagine how Oracle can leverage 90s era technology in a distributed world.

[1] http://oracle-help.com/articles/oracle-18c-future-database/

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#24

Post by zzzcpan » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #14

Too little, too late for Oracle I think. No matter how good the product is, it won't be a first class supported thing at AWS, Azure, or Google's cloud. Eventually, that will drain off their customer base. If whatever the big 3 cloud providers are selling as a database is "good enough", then "better" won't be enough to keep Oracle's current position in the market.

They might need a new database product to survive if they are going to have to compete fairly. Maybe acquire a bunch of distributed systems startups, like CockroachDB, and do something with them for the Oracle cloud.

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#25

Post by bmh_ca » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

zzzcpan wrote: post #23

Wouldn't a much bigger deal be distributed part of the Oracle database in the cloud, not ML? Because turning a feature rich RDBMS into a decent distributed database is not really possible. You either have to sacrifice consistency, which by the looks of it is what Oracle is thinking to do [1], or you have to sacrifice both performance and availability. And there are already cheap not CAP consistent RDBMSs as services…

Note Google Spanner.

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#26

Post by zzzcpan » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

bmh_ca wrote: post #25

zzzcpan wrote: post #23

Wouldn't a much bigger deal be distributed part of the Oracle database in the cloud, not ML? Because turning a feature rich RDBMS into a decent distributed database is not really possible. You either have to sacrifice consistency, which by the looks of it is what Oracle is thinking to do [1], or you have to sacrifice both performance and availability. And there are already cheap not CAP consistent RDBMSs as services…

Note Google Spanner.

Yes, Spanner is the opposite of that strategy, designed from the ground up as a distributed database.

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#27

Post by j_s » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:38 PM UTC

Entangled wrote: post #6

All I want is an ordinary RDBMS with SPAAS (Stored Procedures as a Service) that return a binary blob of tables, nothing else. I don't want noSQL, I don't care about cloud objects, I saw Firebase and didn't like it, I don't want JSON as a result, I don't care if noobs don't know who CODD is, they will learn it the hard way sooner or later. Oracle is the living god of RDBMS and they should take advantage of that yet t…

You can pay for managed hosting for commercial databases. What further requirements are you missing?

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#28

Post by jondubois » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

Entangled wrote: post #6

All I want is an ordinary RDBMS with SPAAS (Stored Procedures as a Service) that return a binary blob of tables, nothing else. I don't want noSQL, I don't care about cloud objects, I saw Firebase and didn't like it, I don't want JSON as a result, I don't care if noobs don't know who CODD is, they will learn it the hard way sooner or later. Oracle is the living god of RDBMS and they should take advantage of that yet t…

>> All I want is an ordinary RDBMS

It doesn't matter what you want. Humans are no longer the customers; we are now the products and the slaves of machines.

At least that's what the article makes it sound like.

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#29

Post by seorphates » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:54 PM UTC

I'm not quite sure I can be hyped. It's worth keeping an eye on. The core dbms is relatively easy to carry and with some careful considerations can be formed and firmed up quite nicely. The irony is the that thicker the oracle kit the more intricate, delicate and expensive it becomes. Storage, db engine, memory and.. cluster ware? Nope, that bird can-nah fly.

Nice database you got there, it'd be a shame if it couldn't grow. Eight figures later.

If ml can expect, select and plant my data closer to the end user then my core rdbms engine can grow, otherwise you're just moving pieces on the monopoly board. Fat pipes, willing victims and a little ingenuity can go a long way.

Re: Cloud DB War: Autonomous Databases

#30

Post by lioeters » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 11:11 PM UTC

dalacv wrote: post #12

When is someone going to make this: Example 1 --------- Me: "Create a new Customer Record" DB: "Customer Entity doesn't exist, shall I create it?" Me: "Yes" DB: "Customer Entity created. What is the Name of your Record?" Me: "Larry Ellison" DB: "Customer, Larry Ellison created" Example 2 --------- Me: "How many customers are there?" DB: "There are 123 customers" Example 3 --------- Me: "How many customers have accoun…

It could be a conversational API layer for any underlying database. Intriguing idea, possible with existing technologies.. Tune in next week for ChatQL!