71–78 of 78 posts
>How does a brain, consisting of many modules, create just one person? The same way a population, consisting of many people, creates just one state? The state is not the people and the people are not the state, yet both exist.
But a state isn't conscious
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In other words, you have absolutely no idea if a state experiences "consciousness" in the philosophical sense, so instead have claimed that it doesn't simply because it is too different from you to receive the benefit of the doubt, even though you recognize that such an assertion is impossible within an empirical framework.
Sure... but it's just as impossible to make a claim that it does.
If you dispute this claim then all you need to do is provide an empirical definition of consciousness that applies to humans but not states. I will note that defining "consciousness" as something like "the human experience" is vacuous and doesn't count.
Dualism is wholly wrong. There is no mind-body split. Even speaking of 'the brain' is just a rough convenience. Individual neurons stretch from that tangled mass of them up in your skull all the way down your spine and to the soles of your feet. Every nerve fiber extends from nearly every point in your body right into your brain. Perception pours in from every point, and it is all extremely important. Emotion, for in…
Consciousness is an incredible thing. Reducing it to a mere property is akin to pretending it doesn’t exist at all.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
By what metric do you make that declaration? I submit that any empirical model of consciousness applies equally to states as it does to human minds.
That’s exactly why I think empirical models of consciousness fall short.
However, if you are saying that the inability to construct a model of consciousness that does not apply equally well to states and people is a failure of empiricism, I think you have started with the conclusion and are looking for justification.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot do. E.g. Tononi's IIT.
Let me rephrase. No one here said that complexity is consciousness. In particular, AnIdiotOnTheNet, who you replied to, did not say that complexity is consciousness. Also, tangentially, New York's sewers aren't that complex compared to even a rat's brain.
>Let me rephrase. No one here said that complexity is consciousness. In particular, AnIdiotOnTheNet, who you replied to, did not say that complexity is consciousness.
Not directly. If not complexity, is it a kind of computation or something physical that makes neurons produce consciousness? Those positoins are more tough to support.
> Also, tangentially, New York's sewers aren't that complex compared to even a rat's brain.
What is the magic measure and what is magic threshold using that measure?
What about a future city's sewer system that is complex enough?
Dualism is wholly wrong. There is no mind-body split. Even speaking of 'the brain' is just a rough convenience. Individual neurons stretch from that tangled mass of them up in your skull all the way down your spine and to the soles of your feet. Every nerve fiber extends from nearly every point in your body right into your brain. Perception pours in from every point, and it is all extremely important. Emotion, for in…
> Just removing patterned sensory input from a typical person via sensory deprivation quickly results in their consciousness dissolving. Do you have any basis for this statement?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me rephrase. No one here said that complexity is consciousness. In particular, AnIdiotOnTheNet, who you replied to, did not say that complexity is consciousness. Also, tangentially, New York's sewers aren't that complex compared to even a rat's brain.
Let me rephrase. No one here said that complexity is consciousness. In particular, AnIdiotOnTheNet, who you replied to, did not say that complexity is consciousness. >Let me rephrase. No one here said that complexity is consciousness. In particular, AnIdiotOnTheNet, who you replied to, did not say that complexity is consciousness. Not directly. If not complexity, is it a kind of computation or something physical that…