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The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders

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Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#101

Post by xenyal »

fatjokes wrote: post #99
steve19 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not arguing for British colonization, but were they second class citizens? I believe they were British Subjects and therefor entitled to all the rights of any other British subject, or at least that of British subjects in any other British Dependent Territory.

Does a British subject have less rights than a British citizen / non-subject in that colony (e.g., the administrators)? EDIT: I asked this half rhetorically. Although I don't have citations to back it up, my impression is that natives who were colonial subjects didn't generally fare well. You may be able to argue minutae. EDIT 2: you ask a fair question, but I couldn't help but be reminded of: https://www.youtube.com…

I'm pretty sure there were discrepancies between the two groups as seen in India during their time as a British colony.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#102

Post by forkLding »

steve19 wrote: post #92
fatjokes wrote: post #87

The people of Hong Kong are hardly winning supporters within China. Much is made of the disdain that Hong Kong people have for Chinese mainlanders, but less is mentioned that it is equally true in reverse. There is a commonly held belief (which I haven't researched and thus don't know if true or not) that they didn't make nearly as much of a ruckus when they were under British colonial rule, when they were de facto s…

I am not arguing for British colonization, but were they second class citizens? I believe they were British Subjects and therefor entitled to all the rights of any other British subject, or at least that of British subjects in any other British Dependent Territory.

I think what they mean is that governors were appointed by British government from the UK region (predominatly white) and Hong Kong govt. would rotate around several colonial figures without democratic input from Hong Kong as is normal with British colonies and thus most of HongKongers life would be affected by a man they would not have an effect on.

As well, "British subjects" in a colony is always a controversial and touchy subject because you have both cases of how theyre treated depending on how they were percieved by the UK. There was a reason why USA started a revolution and India wanted to be independent under Gandhi which again ties with the idea that colonial subjects are usually exploited and not heard from.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#103

Post by nexus2045 »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #88
Jonnax wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you comment on the story of someone being jailed for being an activist with essentially "shut up it's none of your business" The idea of taking care of your own backyard seems pretty similar to the old Soviet Union deflection whenever they were met with criticism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes Many countries have issues, people should be able to criticise even if their o…

> You talk about the majority position. But what about these minorities? Do they feel the same way? Many countries don't have the obsession over multiculturalism that America seems to have. Their priority isn't to have a diverse population, but rather is to raise the quality of life for as many people as possible as quickly as possible, hence the focus on the majority of the population. A homogeneous culture has many…

Why is this being downvoted?

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#104

Post by mchaver »

paradite wrote: post #54
virmundi wrote: post #5

We knew this going in. We decided to trade human rights and to empower an authoritarian government for cheap pants and blood-electronics. I’ve prayed just now, but I did so with a new iPad Pro 12.9” in my lap. I have no idea how to help.

As a Chinese citizen, I would appreciate if you stop thinking about "helping" us. Even if you are genuine, it would come across as condescending. Majority of people in China are happy with their lives, we certainly do not see the need for help from other countries in the way you wanted to. Instead, I would suggest you focus on the problems and issues faced in your own country. In Chinese, there is a saying that "Plea…

I think the things you mention are actually great ideas. Outsiders may have very different perspectives. Their experience and advice may be helpful or they may miss lots of details and offer completely useless, naive advice. But maybe learn why through dialogue. People are still free to disagree or disregard any the advice.

We should equally welcome opinions from Chinese citizens. I would hope blind patriotism would not prevent us from considering viable solutions.

> Do you see people from UK offering to help solve gun problems in US?

Many people do because the way UK society handles guns is very different from the US. The UK has a lot less gun violence.

> Do you see people from US offering to help self-determination problem in Spain?

Lots! Many Americans love to share their opinions. Both struggle with balancing the rights of central and local governments.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#105

Post by forkLding »

fatjokes wrote: post #87

The people of Hong Kong are hardly winning supporters within China. Much is made of the disdain that Hong Kong people have for Chinese mainlanders, but less is mentioned that it is equally true in reverse. There is a commonly held belief (which I haven't researched and thus don't know if true or not) that they didn't make nearly as much of a ruckus when they were under British colonial rule, when they were de facto s…

Agree with this, parents are from the mainland and they subscribe to this thought and look down upon Hong Kong for submitting to colonial rule.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#106

Post by ashleycole »

stale2002 wrote: post #97
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's China gonna do about it? If someone lives in America, then they have nothing to worry about. If you're on the internet, then you can be targeted by anyone across the world, no matter where you live. Psyops/social engineering, identity theft, DDoS, doxxing, blackmail...

Oh no, china is going to come after me for posting information about them on the internet that they don't like! Oh no, my anonymous github account will be hacked! Seriously, this shit doesn't happen. There are too many people doing too many things in the world for a government across the world to do much of anything to anyone. I am not ever going to live my life in fear of something dumb, like that. I am going to cri…

If someone actually did this successfully, then GitHub is put in a very tough spot where they have to choose between potentially losing the Chinese market, or begin to censor their platform, which could be the beginning of the end for them (I imagine GitLab would certainly take advantage of the situation).

China would most definitely retaliate; first by threatening and attacking GitHub, and if that didn't work then block the site completely. This would result in the Chinese companies/government losing billions, their tech progress could be severely hurt, and they would risk enraging the Chinese dev community.

It's very naive to think that the people responsible for creating and spreading this repo wouldn't be attacked, and while you might succeed in maintaining anonymity of the GitHub account (risky assumption), you most certainly wouldn't be able to remain anonymous when spreading it on Chinese services like QQ/WeChat/Weibo/etc (at least if an individual were to attempt to do this).

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#107

Post by eyedeally »

steve19 wrote: post #92
fatjokes wrote: post #87

The people of Hong Kong are hardly winning supporters within China. Much is made of the disdain that Hong Kong people have for Chinese mainlanders, but less is mentioned that it is equally true in reverse. There is a commonly held belief (which I haven't researched and thus don't know if true or not) that they didn't make nearly as much of a ruckus when they were under British colonial rule, when they were de facto s…

I am not arguing for British colonization, but were they second class citizens? I believe they were British Subjects and therefor entitled to all the rights of any other British subject, or at least that of British subjects in any other British Dependent Territory.

The primary objective of British colonization around the world has been without exception the subjugation of the native population in order to extract economic benefits.

The objective fact is that Hong Kong now enjoys greater electoral freedom after severance from British colonial rule and returning to Chinese sovereignty. Yet the cacophony coming out of western media are actively encouraging the repainting of an otherwise undeniable fact as somehow controversial.

And then you have these nativist protestors who knowingly break the laws of the jurisdiction in a "I dare you to arrest me" fashion. It hit the peak of hypocrisy when they went to Washington to implore Donald Trump to assist them in instilling democracy in Hong Kong.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#108

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

nexus2045 wrote: post #103
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You talk about the majority position. But what about these minorities? Do they feel the same way? Many countries don't have the obsession over multiculturalism that America seems to have. Their priority isn't to have a diverse population, but rather is to raise the quality of life for as many people as possible as quickly as possible, hence the focus on the majority of the population. A homogeneous culture has many…

Why is this being downvoted?

Multiculturalism is taught since grade school in America and is seen as the only way to structure a society by most in the country. I actually often get called a racist when I mention to other people that it isn't the only way.

edit: I do find it interesting that this comment was downvoted. For those of you downvoting me, could you please explain why? Was my critique on multiculturalism not the reason my post above was downvoted?

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#109

Post by tim333 »

steve19 wrote: post #92
fatjokes wrote: post #87

The people of Hong Kong are hardly winning supporters within China. Much is made of the disdain that Hong Kong people have for Chinese mainlanders, but less is mentioned that it is equally true in reverse. There is a commonly held belief (which I haven't researched and thus don't know if true or not) that they didn't make nearly as much of a ruckus when they were under British colonial rule, when they were de facto s…

I am not arguing for British colonization, but were they second class citizens? I believe they were British Subjects and therefor entitled to all the rights of any other British subject, or at least that of British subjects in any other British Dependent Territory.

I was in HK for a while under British rule. Us Brits had some advantages. Most obviously Brits had the right to live and study and the like in the UK whereas HK Chinese didn't. Also most of the better government funded jobs tended to go to Brits rather than HK Chinese.

The HK Chinese were however much better off at the time under British rule than the mainland Chinese were under China's. China was kind of a mess at the time.

Re: The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders 

#110

Post by paradite »

Jonnax wrote: post #72
paradite wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Chinese citizen, I would appreciate if you stop thinking about "helping" us. Even if you are genuine, it would come across as condescending. Majority of people in China are happy with their lives, we certainly do not see the need for help from other countries in the way you wanted to. Instead, I would suggest you focus on the problems and issues faced in your own country. In Chinese, there is a saying that "Plea…

It's funny that you comment on the story of someone being jailed for being an activist with essentially "shut up it's none of your business" The idea of taking care of your own backyard seems pretty similar to the old Soviet Union deflection whenever they were met with criticism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes Many countries have issues, people should be able to criticise even if their o…

No, I am not talking about someone being jailed for being activist. On that front, HK has its own laws and I respect that, the same way I respects US law and law in mainland China. I hope you would also respect the HK law being applied to HK residents.

I am specifically replying to the comment where the person wants to "help" China.

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