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China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

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Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#41

Post by klunger »

I live in Norway. There has been pressure for some time on the government to do this because of the salmon exports. Fishing is not as big as oil, but it is still an important part of the economy here. Losing China as a customer meant bad news for a lot of folks in the fishing industry here. Also, since Norway is trying (unsuccessfully so far, but still they are trying) to lessen dependence on oil, this loss mattered even more than you might think at first glance.

Not saying that caving to normalize relations was "right," but it definitely had quite a bit of domestic support here.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#42

Post by mistermann »

doktrin wrote: post #34
nolok wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your comment, but given the tone / details of the questions you answer to I would like to add "... Compared to their current situation". Norway's low will to join the EU as full member is not because they don't like it or are moving away from it , but because they already have everything they want from it, and a few exceptions specifically "for them" in a custom made package they're fine paying the price…

> Norway's low will to join the EU as full member is not because they don't like it or are moving away from it , but because they already have everything they want from it These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Public sentiment has historically leaned towards EU skepticism, something which hasn't been helped by witnessing the EU's broad managerial incompetence (and occasionally petty vindictiveness) on everythi…

I'm curious why everyone laughed at England for Brexit but has seemingly no opinion on Norway, it seems illogical.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#43

Post by rdlecler1 »

ekianjo wrote: post #18
provost wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing would be done via a military operation leaving little choice. Blackmail, threats, deceit, etc are other ways to force. Not saying that occurred here, just that your definition has a narrow scope.

Id rather say you are narrowing the scope of free will. Succumbing to pressure is not the same as being forced.

You clearly don’t understand the meaning of the word.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#44

Post by shaobo »

whatyoucantsay wrote: post #17

There are two notable points in this piece: 1) China suspended normal diplomatic relations with Norway, tossed out a free trade agreement, largely shut down fishing imports from the country and made it far more difficult for Norwegians to get visas to travel study or work in China. All of this was because of an activist being awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, which is process controlled a foundation, not directly by the N…

It is also worth noting that the Permanent Court of Arbitration is only in the Hague, it is not an UN agency, and not a court in the traditional sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#45

Post by dagw »

mistermann wrote: post #42
doktrin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Norway's low will to join the EU as full member is not because they don't like it or are moving away from it , but because they already have everything they want from it These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Public sentiment has historically leaned towards EU skepticism, something which hasn't been helped by witnessing the EU's broad managerial incompetence (and occasionally petty vindictiveness) on everythi…

I'm curious why everyone laughed at England for Brexit but has seemingly no opinion on Norway, it seems illogical.

Norway's path has been a steady path with largely rational smaller steps, mostly towards closer EU integration. The UK took a single, huge, unplanned step into the void without any rational debate or planning on what would come next.

People aren't laughing at the UK for leaving the EU per se. but for the insane and terribly thought out chain of blunders that led to them taking that leap.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#46

Post by danmaz74 »

mistermann wrote: post #42
doktrin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Norway's low will to join the EU as full member is not because they don't like it or are moving away from it , but because they already have everything they want from it These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Public sentiment has historically leaned towards EU skepticism, something which hasn't been helped by witnessing the EU's broad managerial incompetence (and occasionally petty vindictiveness) on everythi…

I'm curious why everyone laughed at England for Brexit but has seemingly no opinion on Norway, it seems illogical.

Norway is part of the single market (including free movement of people) and benefits from it, so, what they did is completely different from what the UK is going to do. But, most importantly, it's much much more disruptive to first join and then pull out that not joining at all.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#47

Post by rdlecler1 »

The continued growth of China (and India) can strengthen organizations like the EU and give rise to other blocs of small countries. Collective bargaining power is the only way to have leverage with a country that’s 20-60 Times larger. It’s not unlike the unionization of labor in response to the weak bargaining position of the individual worker and I expect a similar pattern to repeat including union busting and bribery and a populist response. All very dangerous. If China pushes too hard, then the pendulum will swing hard in the other direction and China will be facing strong union fronts, populist movements that stubbornly demand painful concessions and resultant trade wars. We’ve seen this pattern before and it gets worse before it gets better.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#48

Post by robert_foss »

andrepd wrote: post #27
robert_foss wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying pressure that is irresistible is the literal definition of forcing. So yes, China was definitely forcing Norway to recognize Taiwan and Hong Kong as a being a part of China.

But here the pressure wasn't "irresistible"; they were not being threatened or attacked. They would just be making less money than they do this way. I hardly call that irresistible.

Financial force is force.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#49

Post by doktrin »

mistermann wrote: post #42
doktrin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Norway's low will to join the EU as full member is not because they don't like it or are moving away from it , but because they already have everything they want from it These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Public sentiment has historically leaned towards EU skepticism, something which hasn't been helped by witnessing the EU's broad managerial incompetence (and occasionally petty vindictiveness) on everythi…

I'm curious why everyone laughed at England for Brexit but has seemingly no opinion on Norway, it seems illogical.

That comparison seems a bit off to me. The UK is more than 10x the size of all EEA members combined. The EEA exists / works because its members are largely peripheral. The UK by contrast is a regional superpower. On this basis alone - particularly when accounting for Brussels' massive bruised ego - it was always a bit unrealistic to expect a neat and tidy new EEA-style trade agreement between the UK and the EU.

Not only that, but a central theme in the runup to Brexit was improved border & immigration control. This is something which EEA members don't enjoy themselves, both via Schengen and the EEA's bilateral work permits. Hence, Brexit voters were sold a best-of-all-possible-worlds scenario where the UK would somehow manage to land an EEA style trade deal without literally any of its possible downsides. That seems optimistic to the point of naivete.

Re: China Forces Norway to Adhere to ‘One China’ Policy

#50

Post by polotics »

andrepd wrote: post #30
gambiting wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! Now that would be something. So China is not forcing Norway because Norway can just choose to not trade with China? That's some extremely bizzare logic there.

Well, yes? They could choose to put their foot down instead of bending over backwards in appeasement. They they would trade with everybody else in the world but China. They chose not to go that way, but unless trade with China is a critical, indispensable part of their survival, no, they were not forced.

China is currently being run by bullies. Luckily the regime is not long-term sustainable, they are badly failing on innovation, which makes sense considering that the fruit of much hard work can get easily stolen by said bullies.
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