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Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

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Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#121

Post by lordCarbonFiber »

fapjacks wrote: post #103
r00fus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commute and school dropoffs are the real lifestyle killer I think. Imagine having an extra 5-15h a week to hang out and do things. Imagine having that much more sleep (if you happen to be burning the midnight oil a lot). I used to remember my parents letting me walk to the school bus stop (near our apartment) and then walking to work or taking the bus themselves. Nowadays we pack the kids into the car drop them o…

Honest question: Why do people do this with the school pickup/dropoff? What is the point of that? Do schools still have buses?

If your kid does after school activities the bus system doesn't help much. Add that to zoning issues where taking the bus in the morning might mean an extra hour in commute time (in many states the way to get around No Child Left Behind averages was to stick the accelerated programs in the worst performing schools meaning busing children across town to prop up averages) and a lot of parents end up driving both ways.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#122

Post by [deleted] »

Retric wrote: post #119
whatshisface wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can recount for you the story that I've heard from those in my area who have kids: First, the most dedicated full-time parents decided to pick their kids up and drop them off, so that they would have more time with their kids and the kids would spend less time in transit. Then, some unruly kids caused some trouble on the buses (the district isn't going to station a warden on the bus, and the driver has a route to k…

That's fairly contrived. Schools are already very segregated by affluence and buss routes need to handle every student outside of walking distance. So, the net result is mostly just empty buses, and wasted gas.

[deleted]

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#123

Post by whatshisface »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #118
whatshisface wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can recount for you the story that I've heard from those in my area who have kids: First, the most dedicated full-time parents decided to pick their kids up and drop them off, so that they would have more time with their kids and the kids would spend less time in transit. Then, some unruly kids caused some trouble on the buses (the district isn't going to station a warden on the bus, and the driver has a route to k…

Maybe. But do parents think they're protecting kids by driving them instead of letting them take the bus? They're going to get bullied mercilessly as soon as they get to school anyway. School is simply a horrific hellhole for the bottom 20% of kids. People just like to feel like it's not. And unfortunately "bottom 20%" can happen to anyone -- it's not merit-based. More like affluence-based.

> do parents think they're protecting kids by driving them instead of letting them take the bus?

Yes, that's exactly the sentiment.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#124

Post by Thiez »

eeereerews wrote: post #110
bluGill wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because only well designed studies can show a truth. It is obviously the case that when you drop a big rock and a little rock at the same time the big rock will hit the ground first. Because we have a study we know this to be false even though it is obvious.

There was no such study. Galileo showed this was false with the following famous thought experiment : Suppose it were true. Join a heavy rock and a light rock by a cord and drop them from a tower. If the light rock falls slower, eventually the cord will be pulled taut and retard the fall of the heavier, so this system falls more slowly than the heavy rock alone. But the system is heavier than the heavy rock alone, so…

And yet a human with a parachute falls more slowly than a human with a parachute. I remain unconvinced of this thought experiment...

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#125

Post by watwut »

whatshisface wrote: post #115
fapjacks wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why do people do this with the school pickup/dropoff? What is the point of that? Do schools still have buses?

I can recount for you the story that I've heard from those in my area who have kids: First, the most dedicated full-time parents decided to pick their kids up and drop them off, so that they would have more time with their kids and the kids would spend less time in transit. Then, some unruly kids caused some trouble on the buses (the district isn't going to station a warden on the bus, and the driver has a route to k…

Good public transport system solves or makes easier most of that.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#126

Post by coldtea »

_qbjt wrote: post #17

This is one of the reasons I hate the eight-hour work day. Between that and all of the other shit you have to do in a day (commute, chores, eating, exercise etc.), it seems like there's little to no opportunity to just have a life. I know it sounds like first world problems (people used to work 100 hour weeks), but I think our culture needs to change before we can really put the onus on people to improve their sleepi…

>I know it sounds like first world problems (people used to work 100 hour weeks)

People also used to work much less back in the day -- well, except sharecroppers, slaves and the very poor. This changed with the advent of the industrial age.

Farming work is (or used to be, before modern farming techniques) seasonal, and can be quite very light for the better part of the year. Professions like doctor, store owner, merchant etc didn't require anyone to sit 8+ hours straight in some cubicle. Shops (in 19th century Paris or Chicago or London etc) weren't optimized to serve tons of customers as fast as possible like a modern chain. Small towns and villages -- where most of the population (the rural) in any country lived before 19th century -- were far more leisurely too.

And as somebody already pointed "studies have shown that hunter-gatherer societies spent much less than 40h/week "working" and had more leisure time than we do".

Heck, to Romans and Ancient Greeks being hard at work was only fit for a slave -- not a citizen.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#127

Post by sillysaurus3 »

whatshisface wrote: post #123
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But do parents think they're protecting kids by driving them instead of letting them take the bus? They're going to get bullied mercilessly as soon as they get to school anyway. School is simply a horrific hellhole for the bottom 20% of kids. People just like to feel like it's not. And unfortunately "bottom 20%" can happen to anyone -- it's not merit-based. More like affluence-based.

> do parents think they're protecting kids by driving them instead of letting them take the bus? Yes, that's exactly the sentiment.

The point is, parents aren't protecting kids by doing that. They're deluding themselves into thinking that it's effective when in reality the kids are getting bullied throughout the day at the school.

Well, it's not like the problem can be solved, so I guess parents need something to convince themselves they're making a difference.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#128

Post by coldtea »

mietek wrote: post #94
wmil wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but the 40h/week ignores commutes. For some people that's an additional 15h/week. Also hunger-gatherers lived right beside the people they knew. They just had to step outside to meet up with friends to socialize.

> Also hunger-gatherers lived right beside the people they knew. They just had to step outside to meet up with friends to socialize. Outside of what, the ministry of hunting and gathering?

Outside of their tents/caves/etc homes.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#129

Post by watwut »

jules wrote: post #30
rightos wrote: post #22

But do I need to be more productive? It's a tradeoff - I can go home and spend more social time, leisure time and put more personal time into my projects if I sleep less. The 2-3 hours of extra time I get by sleeping like crap allows me to do things I wouldn't otherwise get to do. Productivity couldn't improve these if there's no time left in the day to do them. It costs me at work, I'm sure of it, but it hasn't gott…

If you are X% less productive you will be able to charge X% less for your work, on average, so you would need to work longer hours for the same pay. You might also be shortening your life by not sleeping enough, perhaps by a larger amount than you're gaining by sleeping less. That is clearly the case in the limit of not sleeping at all -- you would shorten your life to a month at best, not to mention that the quality…

"If you are X% less productive you will be able to charge X% less for your work"

That is not how it works practically. Less productive people don't get less salaries, unless their productivity is going really really down. Most companies use hours spend at work as proxy for productivity for salary purposes. Oftentimes you may look like super productive cause you are fixing a lot of bugs or constantly runing meetings. That bug were cause by you or those meetings could be half shorter is something superiors rarely see.

It is just hard to measure exact productivity.

Re: Productive on six hours of sleep? You’re deluding yourself, expert says

#130

Post by gyrgtyn »

ams6110 wrote: post #66
njarboe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people feel that humans have evolved over millions of years to do well in hunter-gatherer tribes and we have not genetically adapted yet in 6,000? years of civilization. If we think returning some habits of hunter-gatherer tribes would be beneficial, then we need to know what they are/were and not just wild-ass guess based on the Nobel Savage myth.

Many of the habits of hunter-gatherers would likely be absolutely unacceptable in today's culture. They were likely violently clannish/racist, completely male-dominated, hierarchical based on physical strength and appearance, and believed in gods/supernatural phenomenon.

You assumptions are completely backwards.
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