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Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

theguardian.com

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Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#61

Post by SCHiM »

a2tech wrote: post #55
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

I'll outright say it-an endangered animal's life is more valuable then a randomly selected human's. You could kill 10 or 100 humans for each of an endangered species and make no (net) difference in the ability of the human race to survive.

As if that's the only consideration. The survival of the race? Turn that around you can justify just about anything, like killing because you believe it's better for 'survival'.

I think the moral takeaway is not that the lives of these people is worth less than that of an animal. It's that they are breaking knowingly and are often murderers themselves.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#62

Post by __alexander »

centimeter wrote: post #46
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

Is an elephant’s life more valuable than a randomly selected human? Probably not. Is an elephant’s life worth more than someone who poaches endangered animals? Probably. Also, these poachers are usually armed and willing to kill for their poach. The best defense against an idiot with a WWII export AK variant is a smarter person with a much longer-range weapon.

> Is an elephant’s life more valuable than a randomly selected human? Probably not.

According to The Law of Scarcity isn't the life of an elephant more valuable than a human?

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#63

Post by smnrchrds »

eighthnate wrote: post #49

There are zoos all over the world with animals from africa. I'm against all zoos personally, but who cares if they are for chinese zoos? Britain has a bunch of zoos with elephants, rhinos and all kinds of animals from africa. Is it bad because it is for the chinese?

NPR Planet Money did an episode about how zoos acquire animals. I recommend listening to it:

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/09/09/493295430/episo...

To put it in a nutshell, they are not allowed to buy and sell animals. Aquariums can trade animals with other aquariums but no money should change hands. Zoos depend solely on goodwill, as even trade is banned. So when an animal is born in a zoo, if they don't need it or cannot keep it, they donate it to another zoo who needs it. And if a zoo needs an animals, they put the word out that they require one and some other zoo donates them one of theirs.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#64

Post by emiliobumachar »

centimeter wrote: post #48

I wonder if legalizing the sale of elephants, rhino horns, etc. (but still protecting the ones in the wild) would lead to a sort of positive version of the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect After all, if you can make tons of money selling rhino horns (but know you’ll get shot if you kill an existing rhino to do it), people might start putting a lot of money into rhino farms, which could be good for the glo…

Another idea: legalize fraud in the narrow case of selling fake endangered animal parts. Let a big corporation manufacture fake ivory at scale, and mail it to whomever wants to try to pass it off as the real thing.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#65

Post by ex1710_01 »

Maybe this is about China or young elephants.

Every one of us continues to be cruel and complicit, multiple times a day in the the torture and killing of several living beings.

There are a few degrees of seperation from the actual act but each of us, personally, are the direct reason it happens to a specific other living being.

Look inside you and at your life before you judge others. For cruelty isn't just what is in sight.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#66

Post by aaron695 »

thinkloop wrote: post #15
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

Harmers are less valuable than victims, regardless of species. All consciousness should be respected.

So kill all leopards, lions, tigers, wolves etc.

It's a valid point, I do agree it's worth thinking about, I've heard of the movement before.

But it means you are very pro poacher though. Every animal they kill often saves hundreds.

Interesting outlook.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#67

Post by jimrandomh »

bactrian wrote: post #23
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

The question is whether it's okay to shoot first at a gang of heavily armed criminals, or whether you have to attempt an arrest first.

Yes, you have to attempt an arrest first. Poaching is not a capital crime.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#68

Post by jimrandomh »

a2tech wrote: post #55
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

I'll outright say it-an endangered animal's life is more valuable then a randomly selected human's. You could kill 10 or 100 humans for each of an endangered species and make no (net) difference in the ability of the human race to survive.

So if you could choose between saving the lives of five elephants, or preventing the Las Vegas shooting, you'd choose the elephants? That seems to be what you're saying.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#69

Post by bactrian »

jimrandomh wrote: post #67
bactrian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether it's okay to shoot first at a gang of heavily armed criminals, or whether you have to attempt an arrest first.

Yes, you have to attempt an arrest first. Poaching is not a capital crime.

Bank robbery is not a capital crime either but cops shoot as soon as they see an armed gang. Isn't this a good comparison?

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#70

Post by ceejayoz »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #12
adamnemecek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As families. Not condoning it, but these young elephants are pretty likely to die.

Ah. So if China were to capture entire families of elephants, you'd be ok with it? I'm just trying to determine where the line is. I went to a zoo a couple months ago. The elephants' tusks were cut, presumably so that the elephants wouldn't be able to impale each other. That was a bit too sad for me to want to go back to zoos anymore.

> The elephants' tusks were cut, presumably so that the elephants wouldn't be able to impale each other.

It may be to prevent someone killing the animal for the ivory.

A French zoo had one of its rhinos killed for its horn: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/03/09/a...

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