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Zucktown, USA

thebaffler.com

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Re: Zucktown, USA

#111

Post by jsjohnst »

evanlivingston wrote: post #108
jsjohnst wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you get fired, you basically lose your healthcare Not in the US, at least not for 18 months anyway. It’s called COBRA and is available to anyone with work provided insurance.

And is insanely expensive

COBRA was cheaper than a comparable ACA plan for me. It was also WAY cheaper than what a comparable plan pre-ACA would’ve cost. If you just need “emergency” coverage, sure there’s cheaper options. But if you have a chronic health condition, COBRA will more often than not be a lot cheaper and offer better coverage with lower out of pocket costs.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#112

Post by eru »

ddnb wrote: post #63
eru wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, capitalism means many different things to many different people. (As a mildly interesting example of a similar phenomenon: the pro-business libertarian / neo-liberal FDP party in Germany still proudly calls itself 'liberal'.)

Especially since the liberal meaning differs only in the USA

I think it infected most of the English speaking world.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#113

Post by eru »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #44
eru wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are mostly there to keep out newcomers and non-union members. Eg strike breakers. I'm internationally mobile, so I'm often the newcomer. (And from a philosophical point of view, programmers are so well paid that even taking that down a nodge to the benefit of the general public would be fine. What we have to make sure is that forming new tech companies becomes easier and easier---so that any general cheapening…

> programmers are so well paid that even taking that down a nodge to the benefit of the general public would be fine The problem is, taking that down a nodge will not benefit the general public. All the surplus will be eaten up by the companies. I suppose there are two ways to view this - putting up barriers to entry vs. preventing wages from being driven down by encouraging everyone and their dog to become coders. A…

> [...] All the surplus will be eaten up by the companies.

That's why we need to keep working on lowering barriers to entry. (Not just in software but all industries.)

Whenever there's an industry where owning a company confers outsized excess returns, I want a hundred copycats to come in and compete away the margins. (For lots of industries one of the most straight-forward way to get that is to make entries by foreign companies easy. This way a country can benefit without necessarily having to grow a local ecosystem of startups first.)

I am happy to encourage everyone and their dogs to become coders, if they can hack it. Over the long run and average over many people, income is ultimately determined by productivity. Let's grow the pie.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#114

Post by eru »

freeflight wrote: post #49
TeMPOraL wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> programmers are so well paid that even taking that down a nodge to the benefit of the general public would be fine The problem is, taking that down a nodge will not benefit the general public. All the surplus will be eaten up by the companies. I suppose there are two ways to view this - putting up barriers to entry vs. preventing wages from being driven down by encouraging everyone and their dog to become coders. A…

> All the surplus will be eaten up by the companies. That can easily be fixed by plugging tax evasion loopholes and generally taxing higher. If there's a will then there's a way, the problem is pretty much finding the way everybody agrees on.

See https://transformationdeal.org/2016/04/24/how-a-basic-income... for a very straight forward proposal.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#115

Post by eru »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #67
eru wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not too bad. I quit, and am still friends with them. You can still get a visitor pass to go boardgaming etc. Of course that might be just a best case scenario..

Doesn't that seem a bit insane to you though? You're essentially saying the company is permitting you to continue your friendships. What about when they stop doing that?

They are permitting me on the premises. It's their offices after all. They have no say over what people do outside of those offices.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#116

Post by eru »

heedlessly2 wrote: post #76
eru wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not too bad. I quit, and am still friends with them. You can still get a visitor pass to go boardgaming etc. Of course that might be just a best case scenario..

but realistically, you'll be hanging out less often and you'll fade into feeling like an outsider?

Sure. Same thing as quitting a hobby you spend considerable time with and made lots of friends in.

I moved internationally so often, I'm used to building new circles of friends.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#117

Post by eru »

659087 wrote: post #90
eru wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not too bad. I quit, and am still friends with them. You can still get a visitor pass to go boardgaming etc. Of course that might be just a best case scenario..

Having to get a "visitor pass" to visit friends sounds like something that would happen with high school or college students living in dorms, not something that should be seen as normal or acceptable in the adult world.

It's their offices.. You don't need no pass for visiting people at home or in a pub etc.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#118

Post by humanrebar »

notyourday wrote: post #104
humanrebar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...unions are becoming obselete in the US... They don't make sense for knowledge workers. Knowledge workers are rarely interchangeable, so standardizing contracts, job titles, pay schedules, working conditions, etc., makes little sense. There is also the chance for protectionism (closed shops) that runs counter to the freelance culture in tech. Some sort of worker-administered group could make a lot of sense. But m…

> They don't make sense for knowledge workers. Knowledge workers are rarely interchangeable, so standardizing contracts, job titles, pay schedules, working conditions, etc., makes little sense. There is also the chance for protectionism (closed shops) that runs counter to the freelance culture in tech. If that was the case, no one would have been whining about H1B import companies killing US knowledge jobs.

I think your conclusion is premised on a false dichotomy: that either tech jobs are standardized or H1B visas are harmless. There are many ways both can be false at the same time.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#119

Post by humanrebar »

ForHackernews wrote: post #55
humanrebar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...unions are becoming obselete in the US... They don't make sense for knowledge workers. Knowledge workers are rarely interchangeable, so standardizing contracts, job titles, pay schedules, working conditions, etc., makes little sense. There is also the chance for protectionism (closed shops) that runs counter to the freelance culture in tech. Some sort of worker-administered group could make a lot of sense. But m…

A guild is just a union by another name. The Screenwriters Guild, the Screen Actors Guild, and the various professional sports unions (e.g. NFLPA) are all good examples of unions representing highly-paid, non-interchangable workers.

I actually had those in mind as close to what might make sense. Though agent responsibilities might be assumed by the guild as well.

However, the organizations you list have gone in strike as leverage in collective negotiations. That is an aspect I doubt makes sense for tech outside of basic health or ethical concerns. Both the collective bargaining and the striking.

Re: Zucktown, USA

#120

Post by humanrebar »

deadmetheny wrote: post #105
humanrebar wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably not something very attractive to their employees... I keep hearing this meme and I'm skeptical. Far more people live outside the Bay Area than inside it. Are they all poor saps who are waiting to move to Silicon Valley but haven't yet figured out how?

>Are they all poor saps who are waiting to move to Silicon Valley but haven't yet figured out how? I hope this comment was not made in earnest, because this attitude is exactly why SV is a dumpster fire that I have no desire of taking part in. I'll continue living my poor ramshackle existence here in flyover country, thank you very much.

I was being facetious about the "poor saps" to hint at the point you're making.
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