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Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
71–80 of 137 posts
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Humans have natural lifespans. We've had very few people live to be older than 120. There's no reason to not naturally extend your life if you can, but I'm not sure we'll find that experience all that enjoyable as individuals (or it will require a disconnect to do so) and it isn't obvious there is any benefit to society from it (imagine Howard Hughes still directing his empire from his hotel penthouse today). It's a…
I really don't understand your point either. Imagine Srinivasa Ramanujan living to be 500 years old rather than 32, or Leonardo Da Vinci still being alive today -- their contributions to society would be immense. We've been seeking to and succeeding at extending our natural lifespans since forever. The only sensible argument against it is that the planet would eventually be overcrowded, assuming we don't become inter…
Most people aren't da Vinci and even if they were there's no guarantee (or likelihood) those artists could do that for any extended period of time. Picasso was Picasso because he was not da Vinci (well and a million other reasons, but just a comparison). Maybe da Vinci gets stuck in his views and doesn't have anything to offer as of 1900 except a shell of himself. Or, maybe da Vinci gets really bored after 300 years. What else does he have to prove?
What I'm trying to say is that all progress has occurred within our now millenia old system of relatively short lifespans. It means that within 150 years, societies can completely change because new individuals and experiences have to take over. Even the ancients saw death as a kind of leveler. We all die, even the mighty don't get to take anything with them.
Does that happen if we change that equation? Maybe it doesn't matter because people are good at adapting, but there's still a possibility it isn't all sunshine.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#73The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.
When I see people talk about living indefinitely around here in threads that come up occasionally, it does make me wonder if they are on the other side of some selfishness cutoff. It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die and day by day sees horrific injustice. It's almost solipsistic. The same dynamic exists with those hundred mill…
Interesting points but I'm not sure you can easily correlate survival instinct with selfishness. I suffer from chronic depression, but I also have strong survival instincts. I don't feel bad about being alive just because other people have died, as such. Indeed, death bothers me less than ongoing suffering: I was surprised to note that while I feel a bit sad for the people who died the other day in Las Vegas, and very sad for their grieving relatives, I am much more troubled by the ~500 people who were wounded - they're 'lucky' insofar as they're alive and not dead, but the wounds they suffered are likely to impact them for a lifetime, the more so for being unexpected (vs. the sort of trauma you see coming or volunteer and prepare for, as military people do).
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems to me less like an observable phenomenon and more an excuse to extend an argument that unselfish people are actually just selfish people, and therefore "selfish" people aren't real. Sorry if I'm reading too much into it, but this reads like the preamble to at least 10 articles people have handed to me in defense of Ayn Rand.
Actually, yes, this distinction of selfish versus unselfish is sooo pre-high school. It doesn't make terribly much sense to imagine that people can be divided into two groups, "selfish" and "unselfish".
Actually no, even by the somewhat suspect rules laid out in evolutionary biology the concept of altruism stands out as valuable separate from any immediate gratification in many species.
If your sources are pretty high school why should anyone here listen to them?
Maybe not everything is an exercise in pushing an economic ideology.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Actually, yes, this distinction of selfish versus unselfish is sooo pre-high school. If your reasoning here is, that every person just does what feels good for them and therefore everyone is just "selfish", then that certainly isn't the whole picture why people do what they do. There're certainly people doing things because they feel right, but it might not be a pleasure for them doing it. Reducing everything to ju…
What you have described is three quarters, let me fill this for you: Person wishing to do the right thing and doing it ("unselfish") Person doing the right thing against their wishes ("righteous") Person wishing to do the right thing but not doing it (akrasia, you missed this one) Person not doing the right thing and not wishing so ("selfish") It's all about image of oneself and the experience of being burned by your…
> So dividing people doesn't makes sense.
It seems it's more about you thinking that someone else does this here or in the study.
> Now, dividing actions does.
But the study is about actions and how people feel afterwards. It isn't about unselfish people, but about unselfish actions of people.
Sure, if they call the group 'unselfish people' it's not quite right, but that's not the point of the study.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not my point. My point is why do you want to live forever? Is anyone on this forum so important that they deserve to live for 10,000 years, when the entirety of human civilization which made that possible is now dead? Nobody is that important or has that much to offer to the world. It's purely an ego driven thing based on us as individuals. I'm not assigning moral right and wrong to it, I'm just saying it's ir…
My own perspective (which I can already tell you'll likely disagree with) is that I want to live forever to remove the burden of having to choose only 1 to 2 more major experiences in my life (I'm 52). As an example I leaned Japanese. To do so I moved to Japan at 33. My experience there tells me if I want to learn Chinese and actually remember it I need to move to China for 6-8 years. Given I only have 20-30 years le…
I don't agree with your assertion wanting to live a long long time has anything to do with ego.
It's the definition of ego: a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.
It's not a moral argument, it's the recognition that your desire to live all of those lives is an egotistical thing (this is not a judgment).
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, yes, this distinction of selfish versus unselfish is sooo pre-high school. It doesn't make terribly much sense to imagine that people can be divided into two groups, "selfish" and "unselfish".
Actually no, even by the somewhat suspect rules laid out in evolutionary biology the concept of altruism stands out as valuable separate from any immediate gratification in many species. If your sources are pretty high school why should anyone here listen to them? Maybe not everything is an exercise in pushing an economic ideology.
We are all evolved already so we are all altruist under the hood, it's already there under the hood. Any non-psychopatic person will show altruism when in applicable context.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die When you consider that humans are just primates that evolved from a process known as "survival of the fittest" - it's really not that weird at all. Thinking of people in terms of wild animals makes our actions much more explainable. But I think this is a good example of "perceived" injusti…
You've got me wrong. If life-extension works and becomes widely available, I too could live, forever*. It's just I'm not sure that I'd want to, even if I could. Wouldn't it be incredibly depressing to watch something like WWI and then live to see humans doing the same dumb stuff 100 years later? Would you really want to see Twitter when you had lived through Twain? Wouldn't it be really depressing to be a thousand ye…
>Wouldn't it be really depressing to be a thousand years old and to have every person you ever knew dead?
Well I assume that if I have long life that there are others too. Think of the deep relationships that one could form over a 1000+ year period.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. A lot of people who call themselves unselfish seem to just not be able to decide things on their own.
This seems to me less like an observable phenomenon and more an excuse to extend an argument that unselfish people are actually just selfish people, and therefore "selfish" people aren't real. Sorry if I'm reading too much into it, but this reads like the preamble to at least 10 articles people have handed to me in defense of Ayn Rand.
I didn't want to be too negative. My point is that it's really hard to distinguish between truly unselfish behavior and non-assertiveness or passive-aggressive behavior. Selfish behavior seems easier to identify.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#80The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.
When I see people talk about living indefinitely around here in threads that come up occasionally, it does make me wonder if they are on the other side of some selfishness cutoff. It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die and day by day sees horrific injustice. It's almost solipsistic. The same dynamic exists with those hundred mill…
With that kind of thinking, why are you even posting here? Why do you allow yourself any leisure time when people in the world are starving?