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Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

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Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#31

Post by grandalf »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #7
k-mcgrady wrote: post #2

The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.

When I see people talk about living indefinitely around here in threads that come up occasionally, it does make me wonder if they are on the other side of some selfishness cutoff. It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die and day by day sees horrific injustice. It's almost solipsistic. The same dynamic exists with those hundred mill…

Is a first world person who purchases long-term-care insurance or health insurance infinitely more selfish than a third-world person who has no insurance of any kind?

The things you describe are just forms of insurance that are not considered must-haves by most people, but are sometimes chosen by super wealthy people for the same reason anyone chooses to insure anything.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#32

Post by smokeyj »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #7
k-mcgrady wrote: post #2

The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.

When I see people talk about living indefinitely around here in threads that come up occasionally, it does make me wonder if they are on the other side of some selfishness cutoff. It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die and day by day sees horrific injustice. It's almost solipsistic. The same dynamic exists with those hundred mill…

> It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die

When you consider that humans are just primates that evolved from a process known as "survival of the fittest" - it's really not that weird at all. Thinking of people in terms of wild animals makes our actions much more explainable.

But I think this is a good example of "perceived" injustice. The idea that someone may live indefinitely - at zero expense to you - makes you feel depressed.

It reminds me of the iconic kindergarten rule "if you can't bring enough for the whole class, don't bring it". Because there's always that one kid that will put up a tantrum if he can't also have a snack.

I think this is why many socialists identify with this article and also have depression. Like a kindergartener, they see what other people have and they want it. They think it's unfair that someone is wealthy while not everyone is. Then they "unselfishly" want to take and redistribute what wasn't theirs. Hence the "oh I'm so unselfish and depressed because I'm such a good person" type posts.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#33

Post by mfoy_ »

bhewes wrote: post #17

Canary in the coal mine. Depression may be a social illness because people with heighten empathy feel something is wrong with the system around them resulting in depression. That seems a stronger argument then some macro economic argument about ill defined inequality.

Canary. A cannery is a place that cans stuff.

Pedanticism aside, you make a very good point. I feel like Western society has been progressively getting more and more individualistic, with movements like Libertarianism on the rise. People who just want us all to get along are being down-trodden by the people who just want to get ahead.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#34

Post by icebraining »

ams6110 wrote: post #27
icebraining wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die and day by day sees horrific injustice. This seems a weird argument to me, because it works just as well if you replace "years" (or even months) for "centuries".

Not really. I can see wanting to live an extra 20-30 years if you're 60. Less so if you're 80. Starts to get weird if you're over 100. I'll be happy if I make 75 and I'll view every day after that as a gift and not something I deserve.

I can understand personally not waiting to live over an arbitrary age, since that's a subjective feeling. It just seems weird to consider it an universal point and deem everyone who doesn't to be morally defective. What's the objective basis for that?

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#35

Post by thriftwy »

KirinDave wrote: post #18
maxxxxx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. A lot of people who call themselves unselfish seem to just not be able to decide things on their own.

This seems to me less like an observable phenomenon and more an excuse to extend an argument that unselfish people are actually just selfish people, and therefore "selfish" people aren't real. Sorry if I'm reading too much into it, but this reads like the preamble to at least 10 articles people have handed to me in defense of Ayn Rand.

Actually, yes, this distinction of selfish versus unselfish is sooo pre-high school.

It doesn't make terribly much sense to imagine that people can be divided into two groups, "selfish" and "unselfish".

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#36

Post by thriftwy »

KirinDave wrote: post #16
thriftwy wrote: post #11

On the other hand, people often see themself as unselfish when in fact they are highly emotionally dependent on other people instead of being self-sufficient. This path would lead directly to depression when you find out that the person you are emotionally dependent on isn't going to dedicate themself to making world look just to you.

I'd love to read more literature about this phenomenon. Do you have any?

Actually, I do, but it's all in Russian. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#37

Post by yters »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #6
k-mcgrady wrote: post #2

The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.

If we break it down into a binary comparison, there are givers and there are takers. If a giver doesn't learn early on how to handle takers, they can allow themselves to be used very easily. If a balance can be found between a giver and a taker, they can accomplish a lot together.

We should all just be takers then, problem solved!

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#38

Post by [deleted] »

KirinDave wrote: post #16
thriftwy wrote: post #11

On the other hand, people often see themself as unselfish when in fact they are highly emotionally dependent on other people instead of being self-sufficient. This path would lead directly to depression when you find out that the person you are emotionally dependent on isn't going to dedicate themself to making world look just to you.

I'd love to read more literature about this phenomenon. Do you have any?

[deleted]

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#39

Post by thriftwy »

dan00 wrote: post #19
thriftwy wrote: post #11

On the other hand, people often see themself as unselfish when in fact they are highly emotionally dependent on other people instead of being self-sufficient. This path would lead directly to depression when you find out that the person you are emotionally dependent on isn't going to dedicate themself to making world look just to you.

The study is about people being unselfish, not about people seeing themself as unselfish.

> More precisely, prosocial attitudes predict depression, which is in contrast to individualist attitudes. Individualist here basically just means selfish, or relatively selfish

Do you understand what's being conveyed here? Because I have no idea. But it doesn't sound overly legitimate to me. Of course, I didn't read the original research.

Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression

#40

Post by drngdds »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #7
k-mcgrady wrote: post #2

The point here seems to be that unselfish people are more empathetic to the plight of others. while I don't disagree I wonder if unselfishness leads people into situations where they work towards others benefit (people they perceive as being treated unfairly) at their own detriment also possibly leading to issues with depression. That's the point I presumed the article would make before I read it.

When I see people talk about living indefinitely around here in threads that come up occasionally, it does make me wonder if they are on the other side of some selfishness cutoff. It's weird to think that you'd be interested in living for centuries or longer in a world that has seen everyone before you die and day by day sees horrific injustice. It's almost solipsistic. The same dynamic exists with those hundred mill…

Sure, I'd have it much better than all the people who had to die. But I already have it much better than all the people who are killed or crippled by preventable illnesses because they were unlucky enough to be born into poverty.

But that doesn't really factor into my moral reasoning. My living forever wouldn't necessarily make things worse for people who don't get to do that. So, as a consequentialist, I don't think it would be wrong. Making things better for some people without making them better for other people is better than not making things better for anyone.

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